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The Mediterranean Race in Arabia

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
most of the p values are good so the Iran N scores are legit . and on gedmatch a significant amount of european kit numbers i ran can score several percent of the "west central asian" component on eu k12b and that component is basically iran n rich

also the Iran N scores are not even huge for europeans on the pic . nothing bizarre
 

Ponto

Active member
most of the p values are good so the Iran N scores are legit . and on gedmatch a significant amount of european kit numbers i ran can score several percent of the "west central asian" component on eu k12b and that component is basically iran n rich

also the Iran N scores are not even huge for europeans on the pic . nothing bizarre
Yes, I understand p values. It is just Nassbean has his knickers wound around his genitals about the Moroccan result, that they are more SSA, negroid, than previous testing. It doesn't matter to me, Saudi Arabs and Yemeni Arabs have varying amounts of SSA, it could be minor or major, but it is still present. Maybe it is because of the Yoruban arrowed to the SSA instead of Dinka. As far as Europeans all getting Iran farmer instead of the darkie Italians and Greeks, it is acceptable. Among the bigots, it is Levantine Natufian, and Iran farmer ancestry that mark Southern Europeans as non Whites, but CHG is acceptable as every European has that ancestry.
 

Nassbean

Well-known member
You clearly don't know what you're talking about if you believe 13% IBM ancestry for moroccans is normal

genNA.PNG
 

Ponto

Active member
The point is I am indifferent, just minor curiosity. And I consider myself quite expert. I am not capable of taking an interest in every ethnic group and I don't want to, my interest is in West Eurasians. Moroccans are no more importance to me than the Afrikaners, they have SSA ancestry as well. I like to know what the ancestral contributors are of West Eurasians, not how white, yellow, brown or black they are. Insults are water off this Pacific Black duck's back, those ducks are actually brown.
 

Nassbean

Well-known member
The point is I am indifferent, just minor curiosity. And I consider myself quite expert. I am not capable of taking an interest in every ethnic group and I don't want to, my interest is in West Eurasians. Moroccans are no more importance to me than the Afrikaners, they have SSA ancestry as well. I like to know what the ancestral contributors are of West Eurasians, not how white, yellow, brown or black they are. Insults are water off this Pacific Black duck's back, those ducks are actually brown.
I don't care if you're close minded about your african neighbours just don't imply I'm not accepting the results because they don't suit my worldview; those results are simply objectively wrong and you're in no position to teach me about my own people's dna
 

Ponto

Active member
I don't care if you're close minded about your african neighbours just don't imply I'm not accepting the results because they don't suit my worldview; those results are simply objectively wrong and you're in no position to teach me about my own people's dna
I am just stirring you. You are too subjective about your own people's dna, that is a flaw. I an open minded, I live in Australia since age 3, and other than living in the UK and the US, and minor travels into mainland Europe, I have lived mostly in Australia. I can't leave Australia now due to Family Court injunctions. You can say what you like about the Maltese, Mesoman does, it's okay. Use the Maltese as a punching bag.
 

Nassbean

Well-known member
I am just stirring you. You are too subjective about your own people's dna, that is a flaw. I an open minded, I live in Australia since age 3, and other than living in the UK and the US, and minor travels into mainland Europe, I have lived mostly in Australia. I can't leave Australia now due to Family Court injunctions. You can say what you like about the Maltese, Mesoman does, it's okay. Use the Maltese as a punching bag.
There is no "subjective" you're simply too ignorant about north africans and yourself admitted it
 

Ponto

Active member
I have been there, it isn't on my list of parts of the world I want to see, Tunisia and Algeria were where the Maltese diaspora lived for generations until nationalism forced them out. They live in France now. I prefer Europe, and Turkish Anatolia. Those Zenata Berbers move into Morocco and they are more than 13%. I apologize if the fact I find North Africa uninteresting, that includes Egypt, is offensive to you. I am European and West Eurasian, that is where my interests lie. If that is ignorance, well, tough.
 

Ponto

Active member
Take a look at this. Three Moroccans taken from the list of 100 ethnic groups, a Moroccan Jew and a Mozabite from Algeria for comparison. The Moroccans vary depending on North, South or man in the street Moroccan in their Dinka and Yoruba G25 ancestry.Moroccans.jpg
 

Ponto

Active member
Amazing, I just thought he was an ugly, little Spaniard, pretty much how I think of Picasso.
 

idklolimo

Well-known member
FIG. 1 (2 views). A youthful Yemeni from the desert-border tribe of Hadha. Facially he is a perfect example of a refined Mediterranean type; his head length is a little short, his stature a little tall, for the mean. He is a brunet-white in unexposed skin color, brunet in hair and eye color; narrower-faced than any of the Upper Palaeolithic survivors, reduced or unreduced, whom we have seen in the preceding plates. His forehead and jaw are both consistently narrow. It is a characteristic of the Mediterranean race, as of this individual, that the upper face height and nose height are great, no matter how small the other dimensions. Imagine this individual pink-skinned, blue-eyed, and blond-haired, and you will have a close approximation to a Nordic. There is no essential difference between the two races other than pigmentation. Both, however, are separated by a wide racial gap from the Upper Palaeolithic group.
1673169326115.png



FIG. 2 (2 views). Another Yemeni highlander, in this case from the escarpment tribe of Beni Madhar. This man is shorter in stature, and much longer-headed. He is mixed in eye color; some 25 per cent of all pure brunet Mediterranean groups possess a trace of incipient blondism. The cranial and facial dimensions of this individual resemble those of the larger, Atlanto-Mediterranean strain as found in western Europe and North Africa. In Arabia the two are not clearly differentiated.
1673169385423.png



FIG. 3 (2 views). A Yemeni soldier from the tribe of Khaulan, which goes back historically to Sabaean times. Metrically a perfect Mediterranean central type, this individual possesses a thin, aquiline nose of a type found frequently but by no means exclusively among Arabs.
1673169437243.png
FIG. 6 (2 views, photo Henry Field. From Field, Henry, Arabs of Central Iraq, Anth. Mem. of the Field Museum of Natural History, vol. 4, 1935, Plate LXXX). A tall Mediterranean from Iraq. The Iraqians, who are apparently direct and unaltered descendants of the ancient Mesopotamians, are Mediterraneans. They are, however, on the whole taller, darker-skinned, longer-faced, and straighter-haired than the Arabs.
1673169596793.png
plate16.PNG
 

Maj313

Well-known member
For you, yes. For me, I don't care about the Moroccan result, my interest is in Europeans primarily, and West Asians secondarily. The amount of SSA in Moroccans, Egyptians or Tunisians is of minor interest. There can be explanations for the Iran_farmer ancestry in Europeans. One is that it could have been part of the CHG ancestry results, all Europeans have CHG. Levantine farmer is not identical with Natufian HG. I read a lot of papers, they can be queried or discredited. David W does that all the time, and he is not a scientist.
Anyway, Mr Doubting Thomas, I have said enough.
North Africans are West Eurasians themselves (for the most part). West Eurasian is just a politically correct way of saying Caucasoid these days. I guess if you would like to be more exclusive then you can say you’re just European but imo Mediterraneans have far more in common with each other than they do with people from the same continents as them.
 

idklolimo

Well-known member
Excerpt from Carleton Coon's book:

"The bodies of these Yemenis are slightly built; gross observations on constitutional type show the Yemenis to be predominantly leptosome in 60 per cent of cases, and rarely if ever pyknic. The relative shoulder breadth of 21.5 is smaller than that found in most European groups; the relative span of 102 resembles that of the pure Nordic groups of east Norway, and a relative sitting height of 51.3 is less than that found among most Europeans. The Yemenis, although short, are relatively long legged. Their heads are of moderate dimensions, with a mean length of 188 mm. and a mean breadth of 143 mm., giving a cephalic index of 76, which lies on the upper border of dolichocephaly. It is to be noted that while the head form is the same as that of the Nordic race, the length and breadth dimensions are considerably smaller. The head height of 125 mm. is moderately high, and comparable to Nordic dimensions. The facial diameters are consistently narrow; the minimum frontal mean is 102 mm., the bizygomatic 132 mm., and the bigonial 101 mm. These dimensions are narrower than any that we have heretofore seen in Europe. The face height of 121 mm. is moderate, while the upper face height of 72 mm. must be considered great. It is, in fact, greater than that of many European groups of larger cranial and facial bulk. The nose height of 56 mm. is as great as that of most Nordic groups, while the nose breadth of 33.5 mm. is narrow. The facial index of 92 is only moderately leptoprosopic, while the upper facial index of 55 is extremely leptene. Here one sees a disharmony between the total face height and the great upper face height, which indicates the excessive shallowness and fragility of the Mediterranean mandible. A nasal index of 61 is extremely leptorrhine. The dimensions given above may serve as metrical specifications of the small Mediterranean racial variety in its purest form. Observational specifications follow."
 
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