The Mediterranean Race in Arabia

[Nassbean]

View attachment 6321
Looks like me. Am I wrong?

yes that's not an accurate depiction the same artist made a better one :

 

[Nassbean]

ponto posted qpAdm not G25 . qpAdm is more accurate than G25

however i wonder about some models in the list because of their p value

qpAdm results should be in line with the g25 one especially if same proxies are used
you can check any studies on north africans and you'll see that none of them show that moroccans are more west african than Iberomaurusian lol be serious pls

 

[Nassbean]

Is this African group considered different from other African groups? If I'm not mistaken it should be Bantu

nothing peculiar about it it's an important west african group from Nigeria

 

[Kurdquistador]

qpAdm results should be in line with the g25 one especially if same proxies are used
you can check any studies on north africans and you'll see that none of them show that moroccans are more west african than Iberomaurusian lol be serious pls

from what i have seen qpAdm results are somewhat similar to G25 but also big differences .and qpAdm is the way to go

as i said i wonder about some results in that list because of the p value . if i am not wrong a model to be legit the p value has to be above 0.05 . but i might be wrong

 

[Nassbean]

from what i have seen qpAdm results are somewhat similar to G25 but also big differences .and qpAdm is the way to go

as i said i wonder about some results in that list because of the p value . if i am not wrong a model to be legit the p value has to be above 0.05 . but i might be wrong

yes below 0.05 is invalid and that's the case for the moroccan one as you can see

 

[Ponto]

franco was partly italian??? It's the first time i hear that, interesting

It was new to me too. Not that I cared, it's just history.

 

[Kurdquistador]

@Ponto

do you know how to use qpAdm ?

 

[Ponto]

There is a problem with his average moroccan since the average certainly do not have only 13% IAM and 20% SSA wtf

Average based on 86 samples from all over Morocco is : 42 % ANF, 0.7% Dinka, 1.1% CHG, 1.6% Iran_N, 7.4% natufian, 31.3% IBM/IAM, 1.1% WHG, 8.1% steppe (yamna) and 6.6% Yoruba

Average

0.02643019

•

42.0

0.7

1.1

1.6

7.4

31.3

1.1

8.1

6.6

 

[Ponto]

It depends on which Moroccans he selected. There is a range of variation in every population. As I said, when I used G25, not one North, West or Central European got either Natufian or Iran_farmer. In his qpAdm all Europeans have Iran_farmer. Also the Spanish get a more IberoMaurusian on G25. All I can say is that I don't know how proficient the maker of that chart was in qpAdm, but Nick Patterson, the big head, figuratively and literally, and Reich have both stated in a report that qpAdm is accurate and reliable for admixture calculations.

 

[Kurdquistador]

It depends on which Moroccans he selected. There is a range of variation in every population. As I said, when I used G25, not one North, West or Central European got either Natufian or Iran_farmer. In his qpAdm all Europeans have Iran_farmer. Also the Spanish get a more IberoMaurusian on G25. All I can say is that I don't know how proficient the maker of that chart was in qpAdm, but Nick Patterson, the big head, figuratively and literally, and Reich have both stated in a report that qpAdm is accurate and reliable for admixture calculations.

most of the models on the pic you posted seem legit

are you personally able to model with qpAdm ? that would be nice

 

[Nassbean]

It depends on which Moroccans he selected. There is a range of variation in every population. As I said, when I used G25, not one North, West or Central European got either Natufian or Iran_farmer. In his qpAdm all Europeans have Iran_farmer. Also the Spanish get a more IberoMaurusian on G25. All I can say is that I don't know how proficient the maker of that chart was in qpAdm, but Nick Patterson, the big head, figuratively and literally, and Reich have both stated in a report that qpAdm is accurate and reliable for admixture calculations.

Being reliable doesn't mean any internet amateur know how to use it properly like I said when used properly it's in line with the g25 results. Also most europeans certainly do not have Iran_n ancestry that's mostly restricted to middle eastern admixed populations like south europeans. There are enough papers on the subject which btw also use qpadm.

 

[Ponto]

@Ponto

do you know how to use qpAdm ?

No, I can't anyway. I use throw-away computers, actually tiny laptops, and don't have Linux installed. You need a decent computer, and I am not that interesed in finding out exactly who the progenitors of all the ancients were. We get our ancestry from a small number of those ancestors. If Iran_farmers or goat pastoralists had SSA shift, it doesn't mean I have any direct SSA ancestors that I inherited. Anyway, West Eurasians are closer genetically to SSA than East Eurasians, Oceanians and Amerindians.

 

[Ponto]

Being reliable doesn't mean any internet amateur know how to use it properly like I said when used properly it's in line with the g25 results. Also most europeans certainly do not have Iran_n ancestry that's mostly restricted to middle eastern admixed populations like south europeans. There are enough papers on the subject which btw also use qpadm.

Of course. But you would expect that that the person who created that chart does know. I don't know him, but he isn't any internet amateur. Anyone who goes out of his way to acquire the hardware, programs and knowledge to use qpAdm is not an amateur. My expertise is not statistical or making sophisticated programs, it is more in extracting dna, and testing it, I am a Biological scientist by training and I specialized in microbiology. I am not Nick Patterson, a computional biologist.
Yes, with G25 most Europeans do not get either Levantine Natufian or Iran_farmer. The Italians south of the central area of Italy, and Greeks do get those two additional ancestry from Anatolia mainly in the late Bronze and early Iron age. Iberians have North African ancestry. Anyhow, just because the chap got results from outlier Moroccans is not a reason to reject the whole because of one North African result.

 

[Ponto]

Isn't the point here that qpAdm has been given the seal of approval by those scientists whose occupations are in that field. And qpAdm is used officially, G25 is not. I accept that David W is competant in G25 and it is his baby, but his training is in Journalism not any Science not computional biology. So I would got with Nick Patterson, David Reich and Svante Paabo at least until they are knocked off their perches.

 

[Nassbean]

Of course. But you would expect that that the person who created that chart does know. I don't know him, but he isn't any internet amateur. Anyone who goes out of his way to acquire the hardware, programs and knowledge to use qpAdm is not an amateur. My expertise is not statistical or making sophisticated programs, it is more in extracting dna, and testing it, I am a Biological scientist by training and I specialized in microbiology. I am not Nick Patterson, a computional biologist.
Yes, with G25 most Europeans do not get either Levantine Natufian or Iran_farmer. The Italians south of the central area of Italy, and Greeks do get those two additional ancestry from Anatolia mainly in the late Bronze and early Iron age. Iberians have North African ancestry. Anyhow, just because the chap got results from outlier Moroccans is not a reason to reject the whole because of one North African result.

Actually yes it is enough to discredit him since it says a lot about his skills and it isn't only about the moroccan sample but the iran_N anomaly and the very low NA ancestry for iberians which isn't in line with any paper on this population (if needed I can post some papers). Iberians certainly are not on par with italians when it comes to such type of ancestry.

 

[Kurdquistador]

Isn't the point here that qpAdm has been given the seal of approval by those scientists whose occupations are in that field. And qpAdm is used officially, G25 is not. I accept that David W is competant in G25 and it is his baby, but his training is in Journalism not any Science not computional biology. So I would got with Nick Patterson, David Reich and Svante Paabo at least until they are knocked off their perches.

davidski can not even model people properly

 

[Nassbean]

Isn't the point here that qpAdm has been given the seal of approval by those scientists whose occupations are in that field. And qpAdm is used officially, G25 is not. I accept that David W is competant in G25 and it is his baby, but his training is in Journalism not any Science not computional biology. So I would got with Nick Patterson, David Reich and Svante Paabo at least until they are knocked off their perches.

Papers made by Reich do not show similar results for europeans...

 

[Ponto]

Actually yes it is enough to discredit him since it says a lot about his skills and it isn't only about the moroccan sample but the iran_N anomaly and the very low NA ancestry for iberians which isn't in line with any paper on this population (if needed I can post some papers). Iberians certainly are not on par with italians when it comes to such type of ancestry.

For you, yes. For me, I don't care about the Moroccan result, my interest is in Europeans primarily, and West Asians secondarily. The amount of SSA in Moroccans, Egyptians or Tunisians is of minor interest. There can be explanations for the Iran_farmer ancestry in Europeans. One is that it could have been part of the CHG ancestry results, all Europeans have CHG. Levantine farmer is not identical with Natufian HG. I read a lot of papers, they can be queried or discredited. David W does that all the time, and he is not a scientist.
Anyway, Mr Doubting Thomas, I have said enough.

 

[Ponto]

davidski can not even model people properly

It is probably his biases. You know, the sun shines out of .... Poles. I have had little to do with him, I actually don't like him and I have not met him face to face.

 

[Ponto]

Papers made by Reich do not show similar results for europeans...

Do you know scientists are a contentious bunch, argumentative, holding on to their cherished paradigms. It could be that Reich et al, have made errors, last time I looked he didn't walk on water. I alluded to lectures given by scientists in the field of biology and the diagram showing that Spanish and Tuscan Italians have no WHG. That is a glaring error. He also showed a diagram of a four way ancestry contribution to Europeans: WHG, EHG, Anatolian farmers and Iran farmers. Now that does not comply either if most Europeans do not have Iran farmer ancestry.