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classify Afghans from Kandahar

Kurdquistador

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
^ welcome to the forum . i would like to know who you are . are you avicenna ?

also then tell me this . imagine an ugandan takes a dna test and then runs his genome through lets say eurogenes k13 . would he score the same as an irish person (high north atlantic , baltic etc.) and get irish as his first fit in the oracle ?

no he wouldnt of course . saying that "clusters" dont mean anything is not true either . you can argue that calculators and cluster plots dont show the whole story but saying that you can not draw any conclusion out of it is not true either
 
T

Truth929

New member
vengeance said:
^ welcome to the forum . i would like to know who you are . are you avicenna ?

also then tell me this . imagine an ugandan takes a dna test and then runs his genome through lets say eurogenes k13 . would he score the same as an irish person (high north atlantic , baltic etc.) and get irish as his first fit in the oracle ?

no he wouldnt of course . saying that "clusters" dont mean anything is not true either . you can argue that calculators and cluster plots dont show the whole story but saying that you can not draw any conclusion out of it is not true either
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First off, I am not Avicenna. Secondly those are quotes from the study. Direct quotes, not my words. Did you read the whole paper or you just felt the need to attack me right away?
 
T

Truth929

New member
Guti said:
We have been using the academic PCA analysis maps for years. What you are telling is that we should ignore everything what we have learned the last years and start from 0 again.


So what is the point here? We are all humans are we are all related to each other. Indians to European and Africans, Africans to West Asians and Easter Asians etc. Nothing new here.

We have been using the academic PCA analysis maps for years. What you are telling is that we should ignore everything what we have learned the last years and start from 0 again.

South Asians are mixed. They are tri-racial, maybe even more mixed. They do clearly not plot in the Western Eurasian cluster. They are not 'Western Eurasians', they are simply South Asians.

Going back to the Afghans, Afghans are also mixed, but the do have more 'Western Eurasians' ancestry, mostly 'Iranic'/'Persian', than Indians or Pakistanis. But even the Afghans can't be considered 'Western Eurasian people since they are more or less a mixture between Mongoloid Central Asia, Iran (Persians and Irn_ChL) and South Asia (Indus Basin and IVC).
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For YEARS actual researchers have spoken about the negatives of PCA. It’s not something new. This is the first paper which did a in-depth analysis on it.
 
T

Truth929

New member
You guys don’t get it do you… depending on the samples used, PCA results CHANGE. 99% of genetic “experts” on this forum are not aware of this. Which is why it can not be used to determine genetic closeness

The study says:
“we show that two Chinese populations, which PCA purports are a single homogeneous population, can be split if Japanese is included in the sampling scheme (Figure 15B). That is, PCA’s outcome for the genetic relationships between Dai and Southern Han Chinese are relative to the inclusion of another population. Likewise, PCA’s answer to whether Mexicans and Peruvians share common origins and can thereby be compared in a pairwise setting depends on the presence of Africans in the scheme (Figure 15D-D), which modifies the genetic relationships between the two populations, as far as PCA is concerned.”
 
Kurdquistador

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
i understand but saying that it doesnt show things is bullshit . there is a reason why people score what they score component wise and why they get those population lists in their oracles

what is your point anyway . what is according to YOU then a good tool to show genetic relations
 
G

Guti

Active member
Truth929 said:
For YEARS actual researchers have spoken about the negatives of PCA. It’s not something new. This is the first paper which did a in-depth analysis on it.
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Wait a minute, when the academic PCA analysis maps cluster all 'Eastern Europeans' together, then it is a good map. When a PCA analysis map clusters/plots all 'Germanic people' together, then it is a good map.

But when an academic PCA analysis map doesn't plot Kurds and Afghans together, then there is structurally something wrong with the PCA maps.
 
Kurdquistador

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
Guti said:
Wait a minute, when the academic PCA analysis maps cluster all 'Eastern Europeans' together, then it is a good map. When a PCA analysis map clusters/plots all 'Germanic people' together, then it is a good map.

But when an academic PCA analysis map doesn't plot Kurds and Afghans together, then there is structurally something wrong with the PCA maps.
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yeah it is ridiculous
 
Kurdquistador

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
i didnt attack you , but now i will . you fucking piece of shit troll fuck off

enough with this . banned you . saying that i attack you even though i dont and not answering my points . fuck off
 
I

ImHere

Well-known member
Truth929 said:
“Enough with the madness” Yes indeed. Enough with the madness, the BS and the foolishness by people such as yourself.

Using PCA plots to determine genetic relatedness or distances is funny. You have no idea what you are talking about. Let me teach you a little about PCAs.

“PCA results (Figure 17-19), evaluated through clusters or distances between individuals, do not provide meaningful biological or historical information, nor can they be used to support such claims.”

“the clustering of populations between other populations in the scatter plot has been regarded as “decisive proof” or “very strong evidence” of their admixture (Patterson et al. 2010), we demonstrated here that such patterns are an artifact of the sampling scheme and meaningless for any bio historical purposes. The clustering of the results, a subject that received much attention in the literature (e.g., Patterson, Price, and Reich 2006), is another artifact of the sampling scheme and likewise biologically meaningless”

PCA can be used to show almost whatever you want:

“ In evaluating the claims of Reich et al. (2009) that rest on PCA, we first replicated the finding of the original “Indian cline” (Figure 6A). We then garnered support for an alternative cline using Indians, Africans, and Europeans (Figure 6B). We then demonstrated that PCA results support Indians to be European (Figure 6C), East Asians (Figure 6D), and Africans (Figure 6E), as well as a two-ways admixed European-Asian population (Figure 6F).

“the distance between individuals and populations is meaningless and is an artifact of the cohort rather than an informative biological or demographic quantity.”

www.biorxiv.org

Why most Principal Component Analyses (PCA) in population genetic studies are wrong

Principal Component Analysis (PCA) is a multivariate analysis that allows reduction of the complexity of datasets while preserving data’s covariance and visualizing the information on colorful scatterplots, ideally with only a minimal loss of information. PCA applications are extensively used as...
www.biorxiv.org www.biorxiv.org

You should educate yourself before spewing trash like most of these genetic “experts” on different forums always do.
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Dude, can you stick with posting this shit on reddit and theapricity? We dont care how butthurt youre about afghans being situated between south asia, central asia and west asia.

Even if we look past admixture results, even history points out shared heritage, culture and language with nw south asians, specially areas like Nangarhar and Laghman, which werent even considered iranic and foreign to the afghan east iranics(bactrians) in ancient times.

THere's also shared phenotypes with nw south asians, man. Stop being so butthurt about this

Edit: Oh, he's gone
 
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Kurdquistador

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
i dont even consider afghans south asian . and as i said on the thread title the men in the video look very different from even punjabis . most of them

you will find more afghans who look pseudo chechen than punjabi lol

and i even agree that admix calculators and plots dont show the whole picture / story of ethnic groups . but saying that they are not showing anything is idiotic
 
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