how Iran Neolithic and CHG most likely looked like

[Kurdquistador]

PART 1 :

i have seen some shitheads talk nonsense about Iran N again . claiming weird stuff .

so i will copy paste what i wrote about Iran N in other threads and dedicate a thread for Iran N only here


first of all lets list the ethnicities that have the highest Iran Neolithic ancestry / admix :

member onyx who ran qpAdm said that Iran N doesnt work for balochs when he run it but since G25 is used in forums often (qpAm is the academic tool and more accurate but ok) let us just base it on G25 :


1. Balochis and Brahuis

2. Iranian Bandaris

3. Iranian Mazandaranis

however .....Balochs/Brahuis and also Bandaris have south asian admix . and sometimes even SSA . so you have to be careful

but what does that mean ? it means that we have to look at the balochs and Bandaris who do NOT look south asian or SSA shifted

and it is meaningful to also look at Mazandaranis



i want to use Eurogenes K12b to analyze this and show you something


these are results of Iran N kit numbers :

notice that the Iran N scores almost no south asian . only a few percent . not more than 6 . but i ran baloch people through the calc and they get often 12 - 17 % . some even a little more if i remember right . wont check that right now but you have my word that many baloch score at least 12 %


so our task now is to find baloch people who score as close to the Iran N samples as possible . including as low south asian as possible

well i can show you 2 balochs who score similar to Iran N and have 8.5 and 9% south asian . which is still more than Iran N dont forget . so that means that actual Iran N were a little lighter and more "northern / western" looking than these 2 guys


but here they are


this Baloch guy :

and this Omani Baloch guy :

look at the differences to Iran N :

they get both less Caucasus than the Iran N kits

they have not that much south asian but still significantly more than the Iran N kits

the second guy has 7% southwest asian which the Iran N ktis dont have


what does that mean ? well that means that these 2 guys even though they are probably rather close to what Iran N looked like ....Iran N were less "exotic" and lighter etc. (more caucasus , almost no south asian compared to them , and less southwest asian) than them

either way it means that Iran N could NOT have been more exotic or darker than these 2 men ! we can safely say that . the results speak for themselves .

 

[Kurdquistador]

PART 2 :

since Iran N were rather lighter and less "exotic" than these 2 men above by at least a little . these Balochs / Brahuis / Bandaris are most likely the best "fit" to what Iran N have looked like
because they are Balochs / Brahuis who dont show south asian or ssa influence and look more west / north shifted and lighter than average

we saw in the post above that Iran N could not have been darker or more exotic than the 2 baloch guys i posted because when you compare the Eurogenes K12b (you could also use harrapaworld or Dodecad K12b to determine that) you can see that the Iran Neolithic kits score more Caucasus and almost no south asian while the 2 baloch guys score 8-9 %

so it is NOT possible that Iran N was darker or more exotic than the 2 baloch guys above in the OP . quite the contrary . Iran N was lighter / whiter or however you want to call it than them


so these Baloch / Brahui / (1 Bandari man ) would be good canditates of how Iran N looked like :


DONT FORGET THAT IRAN_N IS SIMILAR TO CHG . EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THEY ARE SIMILAR AND BASICALLY "COUSINS"

 

[Kurdquistador]

PART 3

people who claim that Iran N was very dark or even south asian looking (BS) are full of shit . it doesnt make any sense

lets look at us Kurds ok

because we are at least around 33-34% Iran_Neolithic

if Iran_N was as dark and exotic as some of those imbeciles say then we would not look the way we do

and before you say "but you also have CHG , ANF , EHG" . yes ....but if Iran N was as exotic as they say then these other components wouldnt be strong enough to balance it out especially since Iran N is our biggest component and since we also score a few percent Arabian Hunter Gatherer or Natufian .

the reality is that like i explained above you can NOT base your estimation of how Iran_N looked on the average modern Baloch/Brahui or Bandari person because these people score a significant amount of AASI / South Asian . we Kurds dont have that

and this is how we Kurds look with our 33-34% Iran_N
just some outtakes of the thousands of Kurds from our galleries :

click here :

The Kurds . Kurdish People gallery thread

hi . this is the kurdish gallery thread . I will post a lot of photos and videos of kurds . most are kurmanji kurds and some are zaza Kurds (and a smaller amount of ezidis and soranis ) . they are from all kind of kurdish provinces . i will post mostly kurds from turkey because i am a kurd from...

www.anthroworldforum.com

 

[Kurdquistador]

the thread is now ready

you can post your opinion if you want

 

[Kurdquistador]

5000 year old Iranian Woman reconstruction :

 

[idklolimo]

Güzel thread xD
Yazdığın her şeye kalın kalın imzamı atıyorum

 

[Maj313]

Omani Baloch don't look Baloch, they're clearly mixed with Arab.

In the other Baloch pics I notice Sardar Lashkari Raisani, Balaach Marri and Khan of Kalat's grandson, they're mostly of Pashtun origin as Baloch nawabs usually took Pashtun women as wives. To be fair it is hard to define what a pure Baloch is intermarriage with Pashtuns and Farsiwans wasn't uncommon in Balochistan especially among the tribal elite.

 

[Kurdquistador]

Omani Baloch don't look Baloch, they're clearly mixed with Arab.

but the omani dude scores similar to Iran N . but he has significantly more south asian and he also has more southwest asian and less caucasus . so Iran N was lighter than him . i am aware that omani balochs are mixed but well he scores somewhatr close to Iran N thats why i also took him . the first dude is an even better example and he scores even closer to Iran N but also he has less caucasus than Iran N and more south asian . so Iran N was lighter than him too

In the other Baloch pics I notice Sardar Lashkari Raisani, Balaach Marri and Khan of Kalat's grandson, they're mostly of Pashtun origin as Baloch nawabs usually took Pashtun women as wives. To be fair it is hard to define what a pure Baloch is intermarriage with Pashtuns and Farsiwans wasn't uncommon in Balochistan especially among the tribal elite.

can you quote the people who are mixed with pashtun please

 

[KARABOĞA]

this guy looks annoying greek member zeno

 

[Kurdquistador]

this guy looks annoying greek member zeno
View attachment 8633

i saw that zeno kiddo . i can not see a resemblance

but anyway . this guy on the pic scores similar to Iran Neolithic but he scores 8.5% south asian while Iran_Neo had only between 0 - 6 % .

and Iran Neolithic score a lot more Caucasus than him

so Iran Neolithic were most likely lighter / more northern /western than this guy

idiots who say Iran Neolithics were very dark and exotic are full of shit

 

[Fuяевu]

I wonder where the ANE component went or is in their phenotype. Because I’m looking at South American Karitianas’ and Russian Udmurts and I’m not seeing much similarities in these people that were posted in comparison. I’d say they look more so like ANF or EEFs and that’s strange for IranN whom are heavily mixed with Ancient Siberian’s.

 

[Fuяевu]

I think the best phenotype representative for CHG are Svans and Abkhazians who score between 55-63%.

 

[Kurdquistador]

I wonder where the ANE component went or is in their phenotype. Because I’m looking at South American Karitianas’ and Russian Udmurts and I’m not seeing much similarities in these people that were posted in comparison. I’d say they look more so like ANF or EEFs and that’s strange for IranN whom are heavily mixed with Ancient Siberian’s.

but karitianas have a big amount of mongoloid admixture . udmurts too i think

I think the best phenotype representative for CHG are Svans and Abkhazians who score between 55-63%.

well the problem is that according to qpAdm Georgians actually are around 30% CHG actually . me personally i dont think G25 is accurate in this . i trust qpAdm in this more

either way CHG would be lighter and more "northern" or "western" looking than the people in this thread i posted for Iran N . with a good amount even having light hair and eyes

 

[Fuяевu]

but karitianas have a big amount of mongoloid admixture . udmurts too i think



well the problem is that according to qpAdm Georgians actually are around 30% CHG actually . me personally i dont think G25 is accurate in this . i trust qpAdm in this more

either way CHG would be lighter and more "northern" or "western" looking than the people in this thread i posted for Iran N . with a good amount even having light hair and eyes

I don't think that really matters, they still will have similitaries and I've looked at some south american natives and some udmurts. some of them look similar and not in that they looked mongoloid rather had a Siberian look which I expected of their ANE admixture.

 

[Kurdquistador]

I don't think that really matters, they still will have similitaries and I've looked at some south american natives and some udmurts. some of them look similar and not in that they looked mongoloid rather had a Siberian look which I expected of their ANE admixture.

it matters a lot . it has a big effect on their look and you can not really figure out how ANE looked by looking at them

 

[Maj313]

can you quote the people who are mixed with pashtun please

These guys

 

[Kurdquistador]

These guys

are you sure ? the last man is brahui for example

and the dude with the headwear is a google pic and doesnt seem to be famous

 

[Maj313]

are you sure ? the last man is brahui for example

are you sure ? the last man is brahui for example

and the dude with the headwear is a google pic and doesnt seem to be famous

Almost half the Baloch tribes are also Brahui tribes, it’s very mixed up and confusing. The last guy is Lashkari Raisani, Raisani tribe itself is believed to be of Pashtun origin and in top of that he’s from the chief family (Sardars), they marry with Pashtun/Farsiwan women all the time (multiple wives too).

Khan of Kalat is also Brahui but identifies as Baloch, most of his female ancestors were Pashtun women, in fact one of the khans married the daughter of Ahmad Shah Abdali. They’re as Baloch as much as the Ottoman family were Turks (genetically).

 

[Kurdquistador]

Almost half the Baloch tribes are also Brahui tribes, it’s very mixed up and confusing. The last guy is Lashkari Raisani, Raisani tribe itself is believed to be of Pashtun origin and in top of that he’s from the chief family (Sardars), they marry with Pashtun/Farsiwan women all the time (multiple wives too).

Khan of Kalat is also Brahui but identifies as Baloch, most of his female ancestors were Pashtun women, in fact one of the khans married the daughter of Ahmad Shah Abdali. They’re as Baloch as much as the Ottoman family were Turks (genetically).

ok good to know

but i still think they are good representatives of how Iran N looked like

can you maybe post some balochs and brahuis who look similar and could be Iran N representative ?

by the way what is a makran baloch ? there is often a makrani reference in calcs and also in the G25 spreadsheet and they would be the very best suited for this Iran N quest

 

[Maj313]

ok good to know

but i still think they are good representatives of how Iran N looked like

can you maybe post some balochs and brahuis who look similar and could be Iran N representative ?

by the way what is a makran baloch ? there is often a makrani reference in calcs and also in the G25 spreadsheet and they would be the very best suited for this Iran N quest

Yeah probably

I might post some if I get time


Makrani Baloch are just Baloch/Brahvis from the Makran coast of southern Pakistan stretching into coastal Iranian Balochistan. Stereotypically in Pakistan Makrani is just used interchangeably with Afro-Baloch/black Baloch but that is a misnomer, while a lot of Makrani are African mixed a lot of them are just like regular unmixed Baloch- I believe the majority of the Baloch that went to Oman came from Makran belt as the Omani empire mainly ruled over the coastal regions. Their main hallmark is that they don’t have a Sardar system unlike Baloch from further inland, I believe most don’t have tribes in the makuran region. I’ll find some but the ones I can think of are African mixed.