I dont give a shit honestly, your aryan larping arab
Go get fucked by iranians, turks and other arabs
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kurds and afghans do NOT look alike . compare and contrast
- Thread starter Kurdquistador
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Go get fucked by iranians, turks and other arabs
Go get fucked by iranians, turks and other arabs
guys stop it please
Yeah, sure you will. Its so hard to kill an autistic kurd like you
Because youre living in the west, lol. Youre all nice and silent in real life, but is apparently a superman aryan kurd on the internet, somehow thinking youre impressing people on the internet, even though you gives the impression too everyone around youre that youre just an aryan larping arab dude with strong autism(both by me, theapricity, anthroworld and def other forums to you likely visit)
At least the muslim "subhumans" have balls unlike you, but dont speak high and mighty on a forum with less than 10 members, and only 4 active members.
You cluster with semites, dont kid yourself. You look like one too.
I dont cluster close to hindus as you wished i did, lol. I literally cluster closer to the most ACTUAL aryan people, the pamiris, than you do, lol.
Loooool, super aryan, nothing to do with semites, army, but yet youre living in the west, spamming about aryan supremacy online on some ghost town forum(and its largely because of me it gets more activity), but your autistic ass is silent in real life, being a good boy so you wont get bullied by turks, arabs, pakistanis and north africans in real life.
I rather much wanna be a south indian than a fucking loser like you. Self-hating arab, larping as aryan and is so autistic and delusional you cant even grasp how embarrising you look, and you cant do anything in real life.
There more you brag about how superior ezidi soldiers are, the more im convinced you resemble nothing like them(if youre right about them)
I actually dont give much a shit about persians or georgians. Neither are aryans.
Anyways, you cluster with arabs.
Dont call pamiris dravidians, theyre million times more aryan than your larping ass is. They descend from the actual aryans, the proto-indo-iranians. They got the most ancestry from the aryan ancestors. They actually look aryan too. You on the other hand, like many persians, resembles arabs way more and have very little aryan ancestry. Even indians and punjabis have more aryan ancestry than you, lol.
Good youre admitting your arabic heritage. Its suits more your semitic feautures. You resemble nothing aryan.
I also wished you were semite instead of kurd. Kurds produces the most retarded ethno-nationalists. This is why we have social outcasts like you. Youre never taken serious by both iranians, turks, arabs and anyone else on both the internet or in real life, lol
Anyways, after pointing out you being a bitchboy kurd in real life, i just realised i wasted my time on some ultra-autistic, aryan larping arab behind a screen, who lives in the west but brags about achievements by a bunch of military thugs in the crappy middleeast, while he never will be able to say this shit to even front of punjabis. You just get bullied by punjabis even
Man, i should just had stopped at the part with AFG. So much time wasted on you.
Go get fucked by pakistanis, turks, germans(you probs live there lol) and arabs in real life, aryan larper
I somehow found this board again and bumbed into this thread. I am not here for long discussion, just going to give my understanding and opinion on this matter.
As I am from time to time also on the apricity I know the persons mentioned here and talked about and I already gave my opinion on this matter there too.
Afghans and Kurds
A major problem I see in all this unnecessary debate is that people have a hard time understanding the concepts of passing vs looking typical.
For example a certain Pashtun can pass and yet still not look like average majority of Kurds. This is made possible because among every ethnic people on this planet there is variation and as a result of that you will find even Kurds you won't assume to be Kurds on the first look.
Then a typical Kurd passing as an Pashtun doesn't automatically mean the Kurds look typically Pashtun. As there are even atypical Pashtun who look Russian.
I tried to explain this with a model on the apricity.
Let's Imagine 6 clusters (only 6 for the sake of keeping it simple). Let's call them simply A, B, C, D, E, F and they represent different phenotypes.
Among ethnic Kurds = A:45% B:20% C:30% D: 5%
Among ethnic Pashtuns = A:10% B:10% C:30% D:40% E:10%
Among Persians (from Iran) = A:25% B:45% C:15% D: 15%
Among ethnic Beluch = A:5% B:20% C: 20% D:40% E:5% F:10%
In this example 4 types exist among Kurds. All those 4 types are also found among the Pashtuns and in fact make up 90% of the Pashtuns population. While E: which is found among every 10th Pashtun is non existent among Kurds.
However despite the point, that 90% of the Pashtun population belong to types also found among Kurds, an important difference is the distribution of the types. While the type D is very atypical for Kurds. It makes up 40%! of the Pashtun population. Like 4 out of 10 Pashtuns is quite atypical for Kurds. At the same time the type A, which is very typical for Kurds and makes up almost half of the total population, is quite atypical for Pashtuns. This is a very significant difference. Despite on individual basis "90%" of Pashtuns being able to pass as Kurds (once again being able to somehow pass and being typical are two different shoes) only half of the population would pass without being perceived as too atypical.
Another thing to point out the images of rural Pashtuns are influencing the perception. It's experience.
Are Afghans West Asian?
Now do I consider Afghans as West Asian? Well If by West Asian we are talking about the whole Near East. I don't see how Afghans are genetically and lookwise further away from us than let's say Yemenites? However if with (Northern) West Asian we refer only to the regions of Anatolian, Mesopotamia, Iranian Plateau,, (Trans) Caucasus. Than it's a different story.
In my book and from my experience over the years, I have changed my opinion slightly on this matter. Formerly I would have said the Levant is part of what I would call Northern West Asia.
Nowadays I am at the conclusion that the Levant is a whole region of itself, genetically, as well culturally.
I personally divide the Greater Middle East in these regions.
1. Northern West Asians
Which would be Anatolia, (Trans) Caucasus, Iranian Plateau, Mesopotamia
3. Levante
Lebanon, Israel, Palestinian territories, South, West Syria (excluding North and Northwest), Jordania, Egypt
2. Western Central Asia or West-Central Asia
Which would be territories of Tajiks, Yaghnobis, Pamiris, Wakhis, Pashtuns, Beluch, Turkmens and possibly Uzbeks.
4. Arabian Peninsula
Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain
5. North Africa
The Maghreb countries + Egypt
Egypt is mentioned twice because of it's bridge character both culturally and genetically.
I listed Pashtuns and Tajiks in a cluster which I called West-Central Asia. Why do I think this represents them best? Well they are mostly different from South Asia and the rest of Central Asia by culture, linguistics and even genetics. Though there are overlaps but you clearly can distinguish this group of people from their neighbours.
As I am from time to time also on the apricity I know the persons mentioned here and talked about and I already gave my opinion on this matter there too.
Afghans and Kurds
A major problem I see in all this unnecessary debate is that people have a hard time understanding the concepts of passing vs looking typical.
For example a certain Pashtun can pass and yet still not look like average majority of Kurds. This is made possible because among every ethnic people on this planet there is variation and as a result of that you will find even Kurds you won't assume to be Kurds on the first look.
Then a typical Kurd passing as an Pashtun doesn't automatically mean the Kurds look typically Pashtun. As there are even atypical Pashtun who look Russian.
I tried to explain this with a model on the apricity.
Let's Imagine 6 clusters (only 6 for the sake of keeping it simple). Let's call them simply A, B, C, D, E, F and they represent different phenotypes.
Among ethnic Kurds = A:45% B:20% C:30% D: 5%
Among ethnic Pashtuns = A:10% B:10% C:30% D:40% E:10%
Among Persians (from Iran) = A:25% B:45% C:15% D: 15%
Among ethnic Beluch = A:5% B:20% C: 20% D:40% E:5% F:10%
In this example 4 types exist among Kurds. All those 4 types are also found among the Pashtuns and in fact make up 90% of the Pashtuns population. While E: which is found among every 10th Pashtun is non existent among Kurds.
However despite the point, that 90% of the Pashtun population belong to types also found among Kurds, an important difference is the distribution of the types. While the type D is very atypical for Kurds. It makes up 40%! of the Pashtun population. Like 4 out of 10 Pashtuns is quite atypical for Kurds. At the same time the type A, which is very typical for Kurds and makes up almost half of the total population, is quite atypical for Pashtuns. This is a very significant difference. Despite on individual basis "90%" of Pashtuns being able to pass as Kurds (once again being able to somehow pass and being typical are two different shoes) only half of the population would pass without being perceived as too atypical.
Another thing to point out the images of rural Pashtuns are influencing the perception. It's experience.
Are Afghans West Asian?
Now do I consider Afghans as West Asian? Well If by West Asian we are talking about the whole Near East. I don't see how Afghans are genetically and lookwise further away from us than let's say Yemenites? However if with (Northern) West Asian we refer only to the regions of Anatolian, Mesopotamia, Iranian Plateau,, (Trans) Caucasus. Than it's a different story.
In my book and from my experience over the years, I have changed my opinion slightly on this matter. Formerly I would have said the Levant is part of what I would call Northern West Asia.
Nowadays I am at the conclusion that the Levant is a whole region of itself, genetically, as well culturally.
I personally divide the Greater Middle East in these regions.
1. Northern West Asians
Which would be Anatolia, (Trans) Caucasus, Iranian Plateau, Mesopotamia
3. Levante
Lebanon, Israel, Palestinian territories, South, West Syria (excluding North and Northwest), Jordania, Egypt
2. Western Central Asia or West-Central Asia
Which would be territories of Tajiks, Yaghnobis, Pamiris, Wakhis, Pashtuns, Beluch, Turkmens and possibly Uzbeks.
4. Arabian Peninsula
Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain
5. North Africa
The Maghreb countries + Egypt
Egypt is mentioned twice because of it's bridge character both culturally and genetically.
I listed Pashtuns and Tajiks in a cluster which I called West-Central Asia. Why do I think this represents them best? Well they are mostly different from South Asia and the rest of Central Asia by culture, linguistics and even genetics. Though there are overlaps but you clearly can distinguish this group of people from their neighbours.
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The looks of the Iran Neolithic folks
This is one point on which I disagree with Zoro heavily and is explanations do not make much sense in my opinion.
From the data I have gathered and after thinking about it for a while. For me it appears very very likely that the Iran_Neolithic folks varied in pigmentation depending on the region they stem from. To me it looks highly possible that the Iran_Neo folks living in Southwest of the Iranian Plateau and Southeast Iran were browner in pigmentation than their Iran_Neo cousins who lived in a different Flora and Fauna in the North of the plateau.
This is not something unheard off. We have prime example of the very same being the case among the WHG and ANF guys. While most of the WHG in Iberia were darker pigmented some of those WHG/WSHG found in Scandinavia were not that dark at all.
The average Iran_Neo had probably a olive skin tone. But it is highly likely you could find darker and lighter pigmented individuals even in the same area. However that doesn't mean every dark pigmented Baloch looks like how Iran_Neo guys from the South would have looked like. Important are the physical features. Some images (even if in small number) of the darker pigmented Baluch which are swirling around the Internet are actually images of a small ethnic minority of mixed African Baloch. Also as already some pointed the ethnic Baloch do have real AASI admixture which probably effected the facial features of some of the individuals.
This is how I imagine a darker pigmented Iran_Neo dude from the South looked like would be this.
On the other hand Iran Neo folks from different regions located further North probably looked more like this.
Not to forget we are talking about people and DNA which is more than 7000 years old. We have seen on the case of the Yamnaya, Sintashta, Srubna how pigmentation and looks and significantly change over time too.
The Iran Neo DNA
I have already tried to explain in one other comment how Iran_Neo can not have South Asian DNA based on the fact that calculators made for modern populations using modern samples models it.
When Iran Neo gets modeled with lets say some Eurogenes K... calculator as ~6% South Asian. This does not mean Iran Neo has 6% South Asian admixture. It means the Calculator has found in the South Asian proxy population 6% ancestry which is derived from Iran Neo and did not get caught up by a different modern proxy.
This can be because there is very ancient Iran Neo even in the South Indian Onge related population which we did not know of. Which is actually very logical. As long as we don't have any ancient AASI DNA from South Asia we can not tell if and if, how much the Iran Neo folks derive their DNA from AASI.
Until then all we know is that Iran Neo is predominantly Dzudzuana derived (60-70%) with significant ANE related (30-40%) admixture. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we find a source in Central Asia which was very similar to ANE but also showed slight affinities to AASI.
This is one point on which I disagree with Zoro heavily and is explanations do not make much sense in my opinion.
From the data I have gathered and after thinking about it for a while. For me it appears very very likely that the Iran_Neolithic folks varied in pigmentation depending on the region they stem from. To me it looks highly possible that the Iran_Neo folks living in Southwest of the Iranian Plateau and Southeast Iran were browner in pigmentation than their Iran_Neo cousins who lived in a different Flora and Fauna in the North of the plateau.
This is not something unheard off. We have prime example of the very same being the case among the WHG and ANF guys. While most of the WHG in Iberia were darker pigmented some of those WHG/WSHG found in Scandinavia were not that dark at all.
The average Iran_Neo had probably a olive skin tone. But it is highly likely you could find darker and lighter pigmented individuals even in the same area. However that doesn't mean every dark pigmented Baloch looks like how Iran_Neo guys from the South would have looked like. Important are the physical features. Some images (even if in small number) of the darker pigmented Baluch which are swirling around the Internet are actually images of a small ethnic minority of mixed African Baloch. Also as already some pointed the ethnic Baloch do have real AASI admixture which probably effected the facial features of some of the individuals.
This is how I imagine a darker pigmented Iran_Neo dude from the South looked like would be this.
On the other hand Iran Neo folks from different regions located further North probably looked more like this.
Not to forget we are talking about people and DNA which is more than 7000 years old. We have seen on the case of the Yamnaya, Sintashta, Srubna how pigmentation and looks and significantly change over time too.
The Iran Neo DNA
I have already tried to explain in one other comment how Iran_Neo can not have South Asian DNA based on the fact that calculators made for modern populations using modern samples models it.
When Iran Neo gets modeled with lets say some Eurogenes K... calculator as ~6% South Asian. This does not mean Iran Neo has 6% South Asian admixture. It means the Calculator has found in the South Asian proxy population 6% ancestry which is derived from Iran Neo and did not get caught up by a different modern proxy.
This can be because there is very ancient Iran Neo even in the South Indian Onge related population which we did not know of. Which is actually very logical. As long as we don't have any ancient AASI DNA from South Asia we can not tell if and if, how much the Iran Neo folks derive their DNA from AASI.
Until then all we know is that Iran Neo is predominantly Dzudzuana derived (60-70%) with significant ANE related (30-40%) admixture. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we find a source in Central Asia which was very similar to ANE but also showed slight affinities to AASI.
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well you wrote so much 
i will try to hold it short rather otherwise the thread become hard to follow
first of all i would like to to post more often here on this forum mate . it would be nice
so now to the points :
1. i never said that there are no pashtuns who can pass as kurdish . but fact of the matter is that pashtuns IN GENERAL look clearly different from us . and they have many types that we dont have
like these for example portrayed on the first page :
and these are only a few types they have that are not passable in the slightest way among us
.jpg?itok=hsmLbkQ1 "Green%20Field%20-%20Jalalabad%20(7).jpg")
.jpg?itok=a99LwG0q "RAPL%202015%20%20Regional%20tournament%20De%20Maiwand%20Atalan%20(16).jpg")
.jpg?itok=mNizYtO3 "RAPL%202015%20%20Regional%20tournament%20De%20Maiwand%20Atalan%20(26).jpg")
.jpg?itok=9uPZ0IsL "RAPL%202015%20%20Regional%20tournament%20De%20Maiwand%20Atalan%20(1).jpg")
.jpg?itok=ujJXIZaP "RAPL%202015%20%20Regional%20tournament%20De%20Maiwand%20Atalan%20(21).jpg")
.jpg?itok=NcSS-EjO "Paktia%20hosts%20the%20regional%20tournament%20for%20De%20Abasin%20Sape%20%20(11).jpg")
.jpg?itok=V8w-iyvj "Paktia%20hosts%20the%20regional%20tournament%20for%20De%20Abasin%20Sape%20%20(23).jpg")
just take a look at the kurdish faces on the first page and also in general in the kurdish gallery . to think that afghans look like us is just wishful thinking based on the fact that we are both iranic speakers . it is almost like a "taboo" to point out the obvious . aka "how can you disown your iranic brethern" lel . this nonsense has to end . people need to be objective (i am not refering to you btw. bro)
fact of the matter is that despite afghans having people who can pass as kurds ...many do simply not . and they are not close people to us wether in looks nor phenotype . period
you are obviously seeing (i hope so) that many afghans in forums are trying to link themselves to us and who are desperately trying to be northern west asians like us and they always come with the "bu we are iranicz " thing .
there was even an afghan member on AG who got banned because he manipulated his genetic results and took away a good chunk of his south asian scores
they are people who will get offended when they get linked to their next door neighbors like punjabis who are in many ways closer to them than anything west asian and they try to force people to believe they are west asians . YET i am the one who gets shit for pointing out the obvious that many afghans look clearly different from us which is not something surprising considering that they are fucking 10000000km away from us
i am fed up with these double standards
----
2. afghans are not west asian but not really south asian either . they are a bit of their own thing along with tajiks .
they have a lot of AASI .....a lot less than most indian groups but still a lot . we northern west asians have nothing or if any then very little / almost nothing
on top of it they have a lot less neolithic farmer ancestry than us
add on top of it that they are in a different environment / geographics . and that ethnic groups also have their own specific looks etc. ...then you get a population that is pretty distant to us
we are comfortably closer to south italians , greeks , albanians , bulgarians etc. genetically than to afghans (and yes lookwise too when you take out those afghans who can pass as kurdish) . yet whenever a northern west asian would say that there is overlap with those populations we get shit . yet we have to accept something which is not true regarding afghans ? what kind of bulshit is this ?
3. iran neo has a little south asian in it . the 6-7% south asian i am talking about is on calcs like eurogenes k12b where only south asians or south asian derived people like gypsies will score south asian in large amoutns . the component there has almost no west eurasian in it . similar to the s-indian component on harappaworld
it doesnt matter much anyway since 6-7% is little . especially since we are far from having only iran neo ancestry .
i dont think iran neolithics were "dark " either .
zoro is a fucking idiot . 90% of what he says is nonsense and he has obvious agendas . according to him iran neo were as dark as south indians . this is IMPOSSIBLE
he is saying that we kurds are not black like that because of our ANF and Steppe admix etc. . which is bullshit . if iran neo were as dark as he claims then we kurds would not look the way we do . because ANF were not exactly nordics either and the steppe that we have would not be enough to make us that much lighter
so according to him iran neos were like this :
is he crazy ?
there would be nothing wrong with it if that was the case . they are humans too like anybody else . but it is bullshit .
Iran N is mostly Dzudzuana and ANE . it gets modelled with only 10-11% aasi by lazaridis and on gedmatch it is around 6% south asan . south indians score a shit ton of aasi and very little dzudzuana related stuff
and again : ALL NORTHERN WEST ASIAN PEOPLE SCORE A DECENT CHUNK OF IRAN NEO NOT ONLY "KURDS AND PERSIANS"
even italians and greeks score 10-15% iran neo . so they should be a lot darker too if iran n had the same skin color as south indians . guys like him and their agendas are fucking disgusting
zoro claims that "kUrDs AnD pErSiAnS" would have been a lot darker if we didnt receive anatolia n and steppe . surely the anatolia n and steppe does contribute in making a population lighter but iran n itself can not be dark as south indians . that is impossible . if that was the case then the EEF and steppe would not be nearly enough to wash away the south indian color and make us look as we do (again check the pics and videos of kurds) and then also people like mazandaranis would be very dark . they score very high in iran n . the steppe and steppe would not "save" them from it
Target: Iranian_Mazandarani
Distance: 2.9850% / 0.02984995
45.2 Iran_Neolithic
28.2 ANF
15.2 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
6.8 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
3.8 Natufian
0.8 AASI
mazandaranis are one of the lightest "mena" people
balochs are NOT a good indication to determine how iran neos looked like . because they have around 8-10% AASI . and yes that much AASI is enough to make a population considerably darker .
i will try to hold it short rather otherwise the thread become hard to follow first of all i would like to to post more often here on this forum mate . it would be nice
so now to the points :
1. i never said that there are no pashtuns who can pass as kurdish . but fact of the matter is that pashtuns IN GENERAL look clearly different from us . and they have many types that we dont have
like these for example portrayed on the first page :
and these are only a few types they have that are not passable in the slightest way among us
just take a look at the kurdish faces on the first page and also in general in the kurdish gallery . to think that afghans look like us is just wishful thinking based on the fact that we are both iranic speakers . it is almost like a "taboo" to point out the obvious . aka "how can you disown your iranic brethern" lel . this nonsense has to end . people need to be objective (i am not refering to you btw. bro)
fact of the matter is that despite afghans having people who can pass as kurds ...many do simply not . and they are not close people to us wether in looks nor phenotype . period
you are obviously seeing (i hope so) that many afghans in forums are trying to link themselves to us and who are desperately trying to be northern west asians like us and they always come with the "bu we are iranicz " thing .
there was even an afghan member on AG who got banned because he manipulated his genetic results and took away a good chunk of his south asian scores
they are people who will get offended when they get linked to their next door neighbors like punjabis who are in many ways closer to them than anything west asian and they try to force people to believe they are west asians . YET i am the one who gets shit for pointing out the obvious that many afghans look clearly different from us which is not something surprising considering that they are fucking 10000000km away from us
i am fed up with these double standards
----
2. afghans are not west asian but not really south asian either . they are a bit of their own thing along with tajiks .
they have a lot of AASI .....a lot less than most indian groups but still a lot . we northern west asians have nothing or if any then very little / almost nothing
on top of it they have a lot less neolithic farmer ancestry than us
add on top of it that they are in a different environment / geographics . and that ethnic groups also have their own specific looks etc. ...then you get a population that is pretty distant to us
we are comfortably closer to south italians , greeks , albanians , bulgarians etc. genetically than to afghans (and yes lookwise too when you take out those afghans who can pass as kurdish) . yet whenever a northern west asian would say that there is overlap with those populations we get shit . yet we have to accept something which is not true regarding afghans ? what kind of bulshit is this ?
3. iran neo has a little south asian in it . the 6-7% south asian i am talking about is on calcs like eurogenes k12b where only south asians or south asian derived people like gypsies will score south asian in large amoutns . the component there has almost no west eurasian in it . similar to the s-indian component on harappaworld
it doesnt matter much anyway since 6-7% is little . especially since we are far from having only iran neo ancestry .
i dont think iran neolithics were "dark " either .
zoro is a fucking idiot . 90% of what he says is nonsense and he has obvious agendas . according to him iran neo were as dark as south indians . this is IMPOSSIBLE
he is saying that we kurds are not black like that because of our ANF and Steppe admix etc. . which is bullshit . if iran neo were as dark as he claims then we kurds would not look the way we do . because ANF were not exactly nordics either and the steppe that we have would not be enough to make us that much lighter
so according to him iran neos were like this :
is he crazy ?
there would be nothing wrong with it if that was the case . they are humans too like anybody else . but it is bullshit .
Iran N is mostly Dzudzuana and ANE . it gets modelled with only 10-11% aasi by lazaridis and on gedmatch it is around 6% south asan . south indians score a shit ton of aasi and very little dzudzuana related stuff
and again : ALL NORTHERN WEST ASIAN PEOPLE SCORE A DECENT CHUNK OF IRAN NEO NOT ONLY "KURDS AND PERSIANS"
even italians and greeks score 10-15% iran neo . so they should be a lot darker too if iran n had the same skin color as south indians . guys like him and their agendas are fucking disgusting
zoro claims that "kUrDs AnD pErSiAnS" would have been a lot darker if we didnt receive anatolia n and steppe . surely the anatolia n and steppe does contribute in making a population lighter but iran n itself can not be dark as south indians . that is impossible . if that was the case then the EEF and steppe would not be nearly enough to wash away the south indian color and make us look as we do (again check the pics and videos of kurds) and then also people like mazandaranis would be very dark . they score very high in iran n . the steppe and steppe would not "save" them from it
Target: Iranian_Mazandarani
Distance: 2.9850% / 0.02984995
45.2 Iran_Neolithic
28.2 ANF
15.2 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
6.8 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
3.8 Natufian
0.8 AASI
mazandaranis are one of the lightest "mena" people
balochs are NOT a good indication to determine how iran neos looked like . because they have around 8-10% AASI . and yes that much AASI is enough to make a population considerably darker .
That is not much different fromt what I wrote. Once again I used the type D as example. 5% was just an example. it could be 3% for all I care. But the fact of the matter is even if 1 in 20 Kurds has this look this automatically means Pashtuns who resemble that 1 guy can pass as Kurds. Even if as very atypical. Otherwise you would claim that Kurds who look like that but are 100% genetic Kurdish are not real Kurds. And this would be a delusional, paradox and very contradictionary statement.
like these for example portrayed on the first page :
and these are only a few types they have that are not passable in the slightest way among us
I have seen Kurds from Ilam, Lorestan all the way into Dersim who resemble the examples 3,4,5, 7. Very atypical for Kurds but they do exist even if only 1 in 100. This would be a type for example which is relevant among Pashtuns (like 15%) but only found in the 1% scale among Kurds. Don't let yourself be confused by the skin color which is clearly sun burned but the facial features. Ironically some of these examples look more pseudo Arabian than South Asian. The exception being Nr.1
Also as I pointed out. These people are very rural the comparison is not fair and this is quite frankly how especially Turks try to portray Kurds by comparing their people in shiny western clothes with people from the farm.
You seem to have a little hard time understanding what I mean with the concept of "passing" and "looking around average or typical". Maybe I am not good in explaining it. If you put a Kurdish and a Pashtun group next by each others you will easily tell apart the two. You will also be able to tell which individual is more likely to be Kurd or Pashtun. This is a no brainer. But this does not disprove the concept of passing. Because passing only works on a individual to individual basis. What you are describing is the concept of typical/average look. Even if a type, let's call it "G" exist only 1% ofKurds while at the same time in 20% of the Pashtun population. This still would make these Pashtuns pass as a Kurd. But you could not claim the 20% of Pashtuns of type G look Kurdish. Because this G type is not typical Kurdish to begin with. Passing =/= looking like
It's not just some. It's a whole lot of more than that. I am not sure if it is 60, 70 or 90%. The 90% was just an extreme example. it's probably more around ~67% (2/3). But from my own two eyes it is more than just "some". Passing =/= Looking typical or average.
If we are going to make comparisons we should make fair comparisons. Any of the countries Kurds live in are richer and allot more "westernized" in the way they act and dress.
Pashtun people in the diaspora is how I know they look from face to face.
Tajiks have even more often features that can pass as Kurdish
I am not saying they look like us Kurds (passing =/= looking like) but you guys here almost sound like we are talking about a completely different species of humans.
Instead of feeling attacked we should feel proud of it. Them trying to link themselfs to us is a sign of affection. And it is also because they dislike most of their neighbours which we Kurds should understand 100%. When they say, they are "Northern West Asians" they don't do this to hurt your or anyone elses feelings, they do this to distance themselfs from Pakistanis who are literally one of the major reasons why Afghanistan is so f.ed up right now. They don't claim closeness to us by making shit up like saying we are South Asians, if there are some of them claiming things like this, then your response is a understandable response to these individuals. But from my experience they claim closeness to us by saying they are an extension of Northern West Asians which is not a wrong statement to begin with. Most of the ancestry from West-Central Asia did basically originate in Northern West Asia. It is that 15-25% AASI which isn't, but still 75-85% of their ancestry is from Northern West Asia/Steppes which makes them some sort of extension of us.
I do not consider them as Northern West Asians, but as an extension of us (West-Central Asians). Somehow a thing of their own
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Doing something like this is quite messed up I agree. But in which way does that effect us or should be of our interest? Again it only shows they don't want to be associated with Pakistan which is understandable looking at the political mess.
That is all good and fine but once again, why do you care? Are we the gatekeepers of "West Asianness"? The world is not just genetics, it is culture, genetics, religion, politics. And I do not agree that your average Afghans, be it Pashtun or Tajik look like Punjabis. Even if they overlap genetically by 60-70%. Take in mind you yourself explained well how even 10% AASI can make a significant difference. As this is quite a different to West Eurasians components. So a Punjabi having even 10-20% more AASI will effect their looks significantly.
Also looks do not always go hand in hand with genetics. If a certain component slowly but gradually gets introduced into a population and through proxy populations and not the main source, which I am sure happened with Pashtuns. This component will have less effect on the looks. We see this happened also in North Africa. Plus adaption to certain Flora and Fauna also plays a role.
Let me give an example for this.
Imagine two populations.
Population A and B
Pop A has a genetic make up of components X: 30 Y:60 Z:10
Pop B has a genetic make up of components X: 20 Y:45 Z: 35
Pop A is pred. Light haired. Pop B is pred. dark haired and has slightly different facial features
you mix single individuals from Pop A and B the result would be something like X: 25% Y: 52% Z: 23%. facial features already pred. like Pop A And he has also brown hair
Now this AB individual mixes again with someone from Pop A, the results would be X:28% Y: 56% Z: 16%. But he looks already undistinguishable from Pop A (Light hair same features).
We got ABAA (3 A and one B Grandparent). Again he mixes with Pop A and we got X:29% Y: 58% Z: 13%. DNA looks very similar to Pop A and physically he is identical to Pop A also.
Take in mind this is only three generations down the line (one great grandparent is Pop B) yet the individual looks indistinguishable from Pop A despite showing small genetic shift towards B.
Now do this 3 generation pattern over and over again. And the A source population will gradual shift towards B genetically. And even within 150 years just by using this pattern you will have Pop A genetically look like X:28 Y:58 Z:14. Yet physically be indistinguishable from the original Pop A before the gradual mixing starts. That is because the physical features reset to standard after 2-3 generations while gradual genetic shift doesn't disappear.
This could and most likely is the way how Pashtuns absorbed their AASI ancestry via proxy populations. Over 1000-1500 years there was small gradual admixture with Punjabis which, because of it's gradual character effected their DNA more than their looks (obviously there is also some influence on the looks but not nearly as much as their genetics make it seem to be). This is how it is possible that Pashtuns are genetically not very far away from, yet can look quite different to Punjabis.
They are different from us, that is a no brainer even the majority which could pass, would do it as atypical. But again this the point I am making. Passing and looking like are two different shoes.
Agree, can't argue against that
This is not incorrect, but as I explained above the genetic material can also deceive our perception. Pashtuns didn't mix with the AASI source straight out of India. They mixed gradually with proxy sources (like Punjabis) which increased their AASI more than it effected their look. The same is the case with us Kurds. We didn't get our Levant_Neo DNA straight from Jordania or the Arabian expansion. Most of it came gradual via proxy groups (such as the Assyrians).
That is correct
They don't look like us but on a individual to individual basis a majority can pass even as very atypical. The same way that on a individual to individual basis most Kurds could pass as South Europeans even if as atypical.
I have never seen Afghans acting nuts if someone points out that this or that Kurd could pass as South European. Maybe you have come across a number of idiots.
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I think you haven't quite understood the concept of calculators entirely. The Eurogenes K12b calculator is designed for modern populations using modern proxies. What the Eurogenes calculator is telling us , is that there is 6-7% shared ancestry between Iran_Neo and the South Asian proxy population. Common sense and logic tells us that this shared ancestry is not admixture into the Iran_Neo population which is 7k to 10k years old from a modern population which is barely 1-2K years of age. Does that seem logical to you?
Nevermind some Yamnaya samples also show 1-3% South Asian admixture. Does that mean some Yamnaya had 1-3% South Asian admixture? No it means some Yamnaya ancestry reached all the way down even into the South Asian proxy populations.
And we have yet to find any ancient mesolithic South Asian AASI samples. The day we have them we can use it to model Iran_Neo and tell if they really have ancient South Asian dna.
Yes it doesn't matter much but it is important to understand how calculators work.
According to the data we have, some were somehow dark like the WHG. There was some variety in complexion.
Zoro has allot of knowledge, he is by no means an idiot. But he sometimes tends to bend the data in favour of certain agendas.
I agree this makes no sense especially because how certain source populations looked like 8k years ago in pigmentation doesn't define how their descendens look like. If that was the case we wouldn't have a predominantly dark haired and dark eyed Yamnaya population father CW and Sintashta which both had more light haired individuals.
so according to him iran neos were like this :
is he crazy ?
there would be nothing wrong with it if that was the case . they are humans too like anybody else . but it is bullshit .
I don't agree with this and this is one of the few points were I disagree with him.
If Lazaridis wrote this than he has had already his hands on some ancient South Asian samples which I haven't seen. Could you maybe post the tweet or comment of him? I would like to analyse what he wrote exactly.
Who claimed otherwise?You don't need to write this in capital letters as no one said the opposite.
As I wrote this is one point at which I don't agree with him and where our opinions have clashed. Baloch are not a very good proxy for the looks of Iran_Neo not because of their pigmentation because as I wrote, I believe the Iran_Neo people had variety in their pigmentation. It is the fact that allot of the very dark pigmented Baloch minority seem to have other ancestry (like Sub Saharan African or AASI shifted facial features).
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I am a Kurd.
i understand your concept of passing but i dont agree with it regarding afghans
and you got to be kidding regarding the players . there are no kurds who look like them wtf . i am from dersim and i can tell you we dont have such people . the ONLY one who i miight agree that you MIGHT maybe find some atypical + heavily suntanned kurds is nr. 7
but dont you worry . people will rather believe you than me of course . because they will think that i am "hiding" such kurds (who dont exist as i said) and that i am "ashamed" or whatever . it is always the same shit
i am very very surprised that you think that there are kurds who look like those players . the only people in kurdish areas who can look like that are gypsies . yes gypsies . and no i am not trying to give a gypsy label on exotic kurds or something . i posted enough "dark" kurds in the kurdish gallery . but kurds like those players simply dont exist . except maybe nr.7 as i said as atypical
and i watched the videos you posted . only a few of them can pass as kurds ...mostly girls . almost none of the guys in the last video pass . i dont understand why afghan members and now you post such videos to prove that afghans pass as kurds when such videos have always only a few afghans that do . they also often post football team pics to prove their point yet almost none passes as kurdish . this is weird .
i really have the feeling that you try to lay things out in "favor" of afghans because you like them .
mate i might come off as strict , aggressive , unsympathetic or whatever over the internet but you can believe me i am an honest person and my heart is softer than it seems . and even in not important topics like this that is mostly just an interest / hobby i am still honest and when i see afghans (or any ethnic group) who can pass as kurds i will be the first one who will say it . i have no problems with it
but i will NOT play along conformistic views that people have just to please anybody . i have seen you claim that there are "iranic looks" that go from eastern turkey to pakistan or whatever when even many persians look different from us and when iranics are so different from each other ( tajiks , balochs , ossetians etc.) .
please try to stay objective bro
turks for example look 10000x closer to us than afghans could ever . yet i bet many people will say the opposite simply because "muh iranic and muh turkic" and because of the problems between turks and kurds
i really dont like that
not that i give a shit of overlapping with turks . what i mean is i dont like the "everybody says it so i will go along with it" stuff
so to make my points clear one more time :
1. there are afghans who can pass as kurdish . but the number of afghans who can not is higher than the number that do
2. i understand that it is a compliment in a way that afghans in forums try to stick onto us but at the same time i see it as "abusing" us for their own personal agendas and beef they have with south asians .
and because of their owd . now .....people will say "kurds are not european so how can they be owd by this" ....oh please ......oh please .....these tacticts ...
3. lol at you agreeing with zoro on things . he claims so much bullshit . i would have to dig it up for you if you want . guy has agendas . he is always trying to link us to mongoloids and south asians and proves nothing . lately he made a thread about the gedrosia k12 calculator and even there he talked ´bullshit . dude is ridiculous . i wish he would just fuck off from the internet
------
regarding Iran Neo :
the eurogenes k12b calculator has a west central asian component which already covers the Iran Neo / Baloch / Gedrosia component . when you run Iran Neo kits you will see that they score a lot of it .
the south asian component is really mostly pure south asian . because unlike on calcs like eurogenes k13 / k15 the south asian component has barely any west eurasian in it .
i think it was lazaridis who modelled iran n as 10% aasi or ENA or something yes . i would need to look it up exactly
but bro i have no problem with it if you are right in this matter . i myself find it unlikely that Iran N has anything south asian in it . it is from west iran to begin with
and you got to be kidding regarding the players . there are no kurds who look like them wtf . i am from dersim and i can tell you we dont have such people . the ONLY one who i miight agree that you MIGHT maybe find some atypical + heavily suntanned kurds is nr. 7
but dont you worry . people will rather believe you than me of course . because they will think that i am "hiding" such kurds (who dont exist as i said) and that i am "ashamed" or whatever . it is always the same shit
i am very very surprised that you think that there are kurds who look like those players . the only people in kurdish areas who can look like that are gypsies . yes gypsies . and no i am not trying to give a gypsy label on exotic kurds or something . i posted enough "dark" kurds in the kurdish gallery . but kurds like those players simply dont exist . except maybe nr.7 as i said as atypical
and i watched the videos you posted . only a few of them can pass as kurds ...mostly girls . almost none of the guys in the last video pass . i dont understand why afghan members and now you post such videos to prove that afghans pass as kurds when such videos have always only a few afghans that do . they also often post football team pics to prove their point yet almost none passes as kurdish . this is weird .
i really have the feeling that you try to lay things out in "favor" of afghans because you like them .
mate i might come off as strict , aggressive , unsympathetic or whatever over the internet but you can believe me i am an honest person and my heart is softer than it seems . and even in not important topics like this that is mostly just an interest / hobby i am still honest and when i see afghans (or any ethnic group) who can pass as kurds i will be the first one who will say it . i have no problems with it
but i will NOT play along conformistic views that people have just to please anybody . i have seen you claim that there are "iranic looks" that go from eastern turkey to pakistan or whatever when even many persians look different from us and when iranics are so different from each other ( tajiks , balochs , ossetians etc.) .
please try to stay objective bro
turks for example look 10000x closer to us than afghans could ever . yet i bet many people will say the opposite simply because "muh iranic and muh turkic" and because of the problems between turks and kurds
i really dont like that
not that i give a shit of overlapping with turks . what i mean is i dont like the "everybody says it so i will go along with it" stuff
so to make my points clear one more time :
1. there are afghans who can pass as kurdish . but the number of afghans who can not is higher than the number that do
2. i understand that it is a compliment in a way that afghans in forums try to stick onto us but at the same time i see it as "abusing" us for their own personal agendas and beef they have with south asians .
and because of their owd . now .....people will say "kurds are not european so how can they be owd by this" ....oh please ......oh please .....these tacticts ...
3. lol at you agreeing with zoro on things . he claims so much bullshit . i would have to dig it up for you if you want . guy has agendas . he is always trying to link us to mongoloids and south asians and proves nothing . lately he made a thread about the gedrosia k12 calculator and even there he talked ´bullshit . dude is ridiculous . i wish he would just fuck off from the internet
------
regarding Iran Neo :
the eurogenes k12b calculator has a west central asian component which already covers the Iran Neo / Baloch / Gedrosia component . when you run Iran Neo kits you will see that they score a lot of it .
the south asian component is really mostly pure south asian . because unlike on calcs like eurogenes k13 / k15 the south asian component has barely any west eurasian in it .
i think it was lazaridis who modelled iran n as 10% aasi or ENA or something yes . i would need to look it up exactly
but bro i have no problem with it if you are right in this matter . i myself find it unlikely that Iran N has anything south asian in it . it is from west iran to begin with
by the way it doesnt matter where the afghans have their AASI from
fact of the matter is that even though they have less than indians they still have a lot . and AASI is a VERY darkening component (and features too . when i say darkening i also talk about features)
punjabis dont even have THAT much more than afghans
this is how punjabis can be modelled . i will use different AASI for each run :
Target: Punjabi_Jatt
Distance: 2.2484% / 0.02248405
45.4 Iran_Neo
23.2 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
17.6 AASI
11.8 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
2.0 Nivkh
---
Target: Punjabi_Jatt
Distance: 3.5975% / 0.03597474
39.0 Iran_Neo
23.4 AASI
22.0 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
10.0 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
5.6 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
----
while afghans :
Target: Tarkalani
Distance: 2.0943% / 0.02094330
47.6 Iran_Neo
22.6 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
12.2 AASI
12.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
3.6 Nivkh
1.8 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
Target: Tarkalani
Distance: 3.0431% / 0.03043143
39.8 Iran_Neo
20.6 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
17.0 AASI
11.4 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
10.6 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
0.6 Nivkh
---
look how the punjabis have 22% EHG , and a lot of Iran N . if they didnt have AASI they would look very different
and this is how punjabis look :
AASI or south eurasian is highly responsible for the look of south asians . that makes them so clearly south asian and so unique
by the way even punjabis often try to force overlap with us looool
they are one of the most delusional people in forums . they think they overlapz with north west asians only because they are different from tamils n shiet
fact of the matter is that even though they have less than indians they still have a lot . and AASI is a VERY darkening component (and features too . when i say darkening i also talk about features)
punjabis dont even have THAT much more than afghans
this is how punjabis can be modelled . i will use different AASI for each run :
Target: Punjabi_Jatt
Distance: 2.2484% / 0.02248405
45.4 Iran_Neo
23.2 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
17.6 AASI
11.8 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
2.0 Nivkh
---
Target: Punjabi_Jatt
Distance: 3.5975% / 0.03597474
39.0 Iran_Neo
23.4 AASI
22.0 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
10.0 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
5.6 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
----
while afghans :
Target: Tarkalani
Distance: 2.0943% / 0.02094330
47.6 Iran_Neo
22.6 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
12.2 AASI
12.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
3.6 Nivkh
1.8 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
Target: Tarkalani
Distance: 3.0431% / 0.03043143
39.8 Iran_Neo
20.6 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
17.0 AASI
11.4 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
10.6 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
0.6 Nivkh
---
look how the punjabis have 22% EHG , and a lot of Iran N . if they didnt have AASI they would look very different
and this is how punjabis look :
for the first pic you can also click here on this link to see the men more close : https://up.picr.de/38933454tf.jpg
AASI or south eurasian is highly responsible for the look of south asians . that makes them so clearly south asian and so unique
by the way even punjabis often try to force overlap with us
loooolthey are one of the most delusional people in forums . they think they overlapz with north west asians only because they are different from tamils n shiet
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here this is what we kurds score like :
Target: Kurdish
Distance: 2.3334% / 0.02333395
41.8 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
37.0 Iran_Neo
12.2 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
8.4 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
0.6 Nivkh
no AASI at all . and also a lot more anatolian farmer ancestry . and more CHG too . (btw, the tepecik ciftlik has some CHG in it too)
punjabis have a lot more EHG than us . but the AASI is so strong that it makes them look the way they do
and this is how kurds look like (as you know)
www.anthroworldforum.com
Target: Kurdish
Distance: 2.3334% / 0.02333395
41.8 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
37.0 Iran_Neo
12.2 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
8.4 Eastern_European_Hunter_Gatherer
0.6 Nivkh
no AASI at all . and also a lot more anatolian farmer ancestry . and more CHG too . (btw, the tepecik ciftlik has some CHG in it too)
punjabis have a lot more EHG than us . but the AASI is so strong that it makes them look the way they do
and this is how kurds look like (as you know)
classify /state the main types among us in this kurdish set
bored right now . maybe someone will post we are all Kurdish what are the main types ?
www.anthroworldforum.com
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