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how ancients (CHG , Iran N , Anatolia N etc) likely looked like

Ben Dover

Moderator
Staff member
Country
India
Target: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
Distance: 3.6747% / 0.03674686
49.2 Satsurblia_CHG
33.2 Anatolia_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
8.2 Northern_Iran_10KYA_IRN_Belt_Cave_Meso_I2312_all_d
4.0 Arabian_Hunter-Gatherer_Simulated
3.0 Zagros_Mountains_10KYA_IRN_Wezmeh_N_WC1
1.6 Pontic_Caspian_Steppe(east)_10KYA_RUS_Samara_HG_R1b
0.8 South_Baltic_Coast_10KYA_Baltic_BA_HG_Simulated
Distance to: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
0.02594573 Georgian_Imer
0.02867367 Georgian_West
0.02983908 Georgian_Megr
0.03102381 Georgian_Guria
0.03242820 Georgian_Ajar
0.03449506 Georgian_Svaneti
0.03493570 Georgian_Kart
0.03494853 Georgian_Ratcha
0.03502263 Georgian_Mtiuleti
0.03593899 Georgian_Lechkhumi
0.03656441 Abkhasian
0.03759170 Georgian_Kakh
0.03923909 Georgian_Javakheti
0.04008328 Ahiska
0.04059057 Georgian_NorthEast
0.04154630 Georgian_Khevs
0.04219410 Abkhasian_Gudauta
0.04362075 Andian_A
0.04434084 Georgian_Tush
0.04443943 Georgian_Laz
0.04535242 Georgian_Samtckhe
0.05139727 Hinukh
0.05224868 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05457549 Ossetian
0.05463870 Udi
0.05664816 Karata
0.05889648 Tsez_A
0.05959391 Bagvalin_o
0.06045407 Adygei
0.06057240 Armenian_Artsakh
0.06158927 Greek_Trabzon
0.06258135 Armenian_Parspatunik
0.06317040 Armenian_Syunik
0.06378859 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.06420453 Ingushian
0.06557659 Turkish_Trabzon
0.06592724 Georgian_Meskheti
0.06623899 Tat_Azerbaijan
0.06705212 Chechen
0.06712406 North_Ossetian
0.06771914 Kurdish
0.06813811 Turkish_East
0.06851391 Hunzib
0.07137408 Armenian_Erzurum
0.07144402 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.07175365 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.07205529 Armenian_Gesaria
0.07212457 Armenian_Ararat
0.07305006 Ezid
0.07405950 Iranian_Lor
0.07465723 Armenian_Gurin
0.07477076 Balkar
0.07497412 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.07572492 Tat_Dagestan_Dzhalgan
0.07646823 Karachay
0.07733608 Circassian
0.07736489 Tat_Dagestan_Nyugdi
0.07768724 Georgian_Jew
0.07795779 Armenian_Aintab
0.07893060 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.07898247 Iranian_Fars
0.07909563 Kumyk
0.07945369 Tsez_B
0.07990872 Bagvalin
0.08029877 Armenian_Urfa
0.08043795 Cherkes
0.08108930 Azerbaijani
0.08130000 Assyrian
0.08141417 Kabardin
0.08324637 Tindal
0.08354210 Tabasaran
0.08356287 Ratlub
0.08375696 Abazin
0.08419711 Chamalin
0.08432534 Lezgin
0.08490138 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.08538992 Mountain_Jew
0.08569378 Bukharian_Jew
0.08641084 Avar
0.08658595 Lak
0.08659528 Kubachinian
0.08818005 Mountain_Jew_o
0.08841335 Turkish_Kayseri
0.08933509 Kaitag
0.08966782 Andian_B
0.09113796 Greek_Cappadocia
0.09168102 Akhvakh
0.09170911 Turkish_Adana
0.09208012 Iranian_Jew
0.09312482 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.09338924 Darginian
0.09547123 Kurdish_Jew
0.09586367 Turkish_Central
0.10022076 Iraqi_Jew
0.10814228 Syrian
0.10852277 Turkish_North
0.10908236 Lebanese_Druze
0.10925424 Iraqi
0.11021235 Druze
0.11110606 Lebanese_Muslim


FY1ZF1kXoAIla7U
 

Ben Dover

Moderator
Staff member
Country
India
Target: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
Distance: 3.6747% / 0.03674686
49.2 Satsurblia_CHG
33.2 Anatolia_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
8.2 Northern_Iran_10KYA_IRN_Belt_Cave_Meso_I2312_all_d
4.0 Arabian_Hunter-Gatherer_Simulated
3.0 Zagros_Mountains_10KYA_IRN_Wezmeh_N_WC1
1.6 Pontic_Caspian_Steppe(east)_10KYA_RUS_Samara_HG_R1b
0.8 South_Baltic_Coast_10KYA_Baltic_BA_HG_Simulated
Distance to: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
0.02594573 Georgian_Imer
0.02867367 Georgian_West
0.02983908 Georgian_Megr
0.03102381 Georgian_Guria
0.03242820 Georgian_Ajar
0.03449506 Georgian_Svaneti
0.03493570 Georgian_Kart
0.03494853 Georgian_Ratcha
0.03502263 Georgian_Mtiuleti
0.03593899 Georgian_Lechkhumi
0.03656441 Abkhasian
0.03759170 Georgian_Kakh
0.03923909 Georgian_Javakheti
0.04008328 Ahiska
0.04059057 Georgian_NorthEast
0.04154630 Georgian_Khevs
0.04219410 Abkhasian_Gudauta
0.04362075 Andian_A
0.04434084 Georgian_Tush
0.04443943 Georgian_Laz
0.04535242 Georgian_Samtckhe
0.05139727 Hinukh
0.05224868 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05457549 Ossetian
0.05463870 Udi
0.05664816 Karata
0.05889648 Tsez_A
0.05959391 Bagvalin_o
0.06045407 Adygei
0.06057240 Armenian_Artsakh
0.06158927 Greek_Trabzon
0.06258135 Armenian_Parspatunik
0.06317040 Armenian_Syunik
0.06378859 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.06420453 Ingushian
0.06557659 Turkish_Trabzon
0.06592724 Georgian_Meskheti
0.06623899 Tat_Azerbaijan
0.06705212 Chechen
0.06712406 North_Ossetian
0.06771914 Kurdish
0.06813811 Turkish_East
0.06851391 Hunzib
0.07137408 Armenian_Erzurum
0.07144402 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.07175365 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.07205529 Armenian_Gesaria
0.07212457 Armenian_Ararat
0.07305006 Ezid
0.07405950 Iranian_Lor
0.07465723 Armenian_Gurin
0.07477076 Balkar
0.07497412 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.07572492 Tat_Dagestan_Dzhalgan
0.07646823 Karachay
0.07733608 Circassian
0.07736489 Tat_Dagestan_Nyugdi
0.07768724 Georgian_Jew
0.07795779 Armenian_Aintab
0.07893060 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.07898247 Iranian_Fars
0.07909563 Kumyk
0.07945369 Tsez_B
0.07990872 Bagvalin
0.08029877 Armenian_Urfa
0.08043795 Cherkes
0.08108930 Azerbaijani
0.08130000 Assyrian
0.08141417 Kabardin
0.08324637 Tindal
0.08354210 Tabasaran
0.08356287 Ratlub
0.08375696 Abazin
0.08419711 Chamalin
0.08432534 Lezgin
0.08490138 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.08538992 Mountain_Jew
0.08569378 Bukharian_Jew
0.08641084 Avar
0.08658595 Lak
0.08659528 Kubachinian
0.08818005 Mountain_Jew_o
0.08841335 Turkish_Kayseri
0.08933509 Kaitag
0.08966782 Andian_B
0.09113796 Greek_Cappadocia
0.09168102 Akhvakh
0.09170911 Turkish_Adana
0.09208012 Iranian_Jew
0.09312482 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.09338924 Darginian
0.09547123 Kurdish_Jew
0.09586367 Turkish_Central
0.10022076 Iraqi_Jew
0.10814228 Syrian
0.10852277 Turkish_North
0.10908236 Lebanese_Druze
0.10925424 Iraqi
0.11021235 Druze
0.11110606 Lebanese_Muslim


FY1ZF1kXoAIla7U
@crusher @goldenhand @Beowulf @Levantinesupremacist @ESARHADDON Where would ya'll pass this reconstruction? Genetically this dude was identical to modern day Georgians as shown in the modeling and the plot
 

KARABOĞA

Well-known member
Country
Turkey
Target: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
Distance: 3.6747% / 0.03674686
49.2 Satsurblia_CHG
33.2 Anatolia_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
8.2 Northern_Iran_10KYA_IRN_Belt_Cave_Meso_I2312_all_d
4.0 Arabian_Hunter-Gatherer_Simulated
3.0 Zagros_Mountains_10KYA_IRN_Wezmeh_N_WC1
1.6 Pontic_Caspian_Steppe(east)_10KYA_RUS_Samara_HG_R1b
0.8 South_Baltic_Coast_10KYA_Baltic_BA_HG_Simulated
Distance to: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
0.02594573 Georgian_Imer
0.02867367 Georgian_West
0.02983908 Georgian_Megr
0.03102381 Georgian_Guria
0.03242820 Georgian_Ajar
0.03449506 Georgian_Svaneti
0.03493570 Georgian_Kart
0.03494853 Georgian_Ratcha
0.03502263 Georgian_Mtiuleti
0.03593899 Georgian_Lechkhumi
0.03656441 Abkhasian
0.03759170 Georgian_Kakh
0.03923909 Georgian_Javakheti
0.04008328 Ahiska
0.04059057 Georgian_NorthEast
0.04154630 Georgian_Khevs
0.04219410 Abkhasian_Gudauta
0.04362075 Andian_A
0.04434084 Georgian_Tush
0.04443943 Georgian_Laz
0.04535242 Georgian_Samtckhe
0.05139727 Hinukh
0.05224868 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05457549 Ossetian
0.05463870 Udi
0.05664816 Karata
0.05889648 Tsez_A
0.05959391 Bagvalin_o
0.06045407 Adygei
0.06057240 Armenian_Artsakh
0.06158927 Greek_Trabzon
0.06258135 Armenian_Parspatunik
0.06317040 Armenian_Syunik
0.06378859 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.06420453 Ingushian
0.06557659 Turkish_Trabzon
0.06592724 Georgian_Meskheti
0.06623899 Tat_Azerbaijan
0.06705212 Chechen
0.06712406 North_Ossetian
0.06771914 Kurdish
0.06813811 Turkish_East
0.06851391 Hunzib
0.07137408 Armenian_Erzurum
0.07144402 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.07175365 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.07205529 Armenian_Gesaria
0.07212457 Armenian_Ararat
0.07305006 Ezid
0.07405950 Iranian_Lor
0.07465723 Armenian_Gurin
0.07477076 Balkar
0.07497412 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.07572492 Tat_Dagestan_Dzhalgan
0.07646823 Karachay
0.07733608 Circassian
0.07736489 Tat_Dagestan_Nyugdi
0.07768724 Georgian_Jew
0.07795779 Armenian_Aintab
0.07893060 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.07898247 Iranian_Fars
0.07909563 Kumyk
0.07945369 Tsez_B
0.07990872 Bagvalin
0.08029877 Armenian_Urfa
0.08043795 Cherkes
0.08108930 Azerbaijani
0.08130000 Assyrian
0.08141417 Kabardin
0.08324637 Tindal
0.08354210 Tabasaran
0.08356287 Ratlub
0.08375696 Abazin
0.08419711 Chamalin
0.08432534 Lezgin
0.08490138 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.08538992 Mountain_Jew
0.08569378 Bukharian_Jew
0.08641084 Avar
0.08658595 Lak
0.08659528 Kubachinian
0.08818005 Mountain_Jew_o
0.08841335 Turkish_Kayseri
0.08933509 Kaitag
0.08966782 Andian_B
0.09113796 Greek_Cappadocia
0.09168102 Akhvakh
0.09170911 Turkish_Adana
0.09208012 Iranian_Jew
0.09312482 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.09338924 Darginian
0.09547123 Kurdish_Jew
0.09586367 Turkish_Central
0.10022076 Iraqi_Jew
0.10814228 Syrian
0.10852277 Turkish_North
0.10908236 Lebanese_Druze
0.10925424 Iraqi
0.11021235 Druze
0.11110606 Lebanese_Muslim


FY1ZF1kXoAIla7U
i think his facial features match his genetic profile but he looks archaic than modern populations for sure.
 

Ben Dover

Moderator
Staff member
Country
India
Judging by the fact that Mesolithic Iranians from Hotu Cave would have looked similar to reconstructions shown below ( including the male variant ) we can safely say that Iran_N was a more brunette version of this reconstruction. Why? The modelings shown below provide all the information necessary to understand the reasons behind this hypothesis. To model Hotu_Mesolithic sample, Wezmeh_N and Iran_Ganj_Dareh_N were used as the prmary sources.
First the Reconstructions
FbRFJ0hacAADVV2.jpg:large
Male Variant
46.jpg

And now the modelings


Target: Mazandaran_Golestan_10KYA_IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
Distance: 3.2525% / 0.03252519
80.6 Western_Iran_10KYA_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.8 North_Eurasia(ANE)_10KYA_RUS_AfontovaGora3
2.6 Anatolia_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
2.2 Satsurblia_CHG

0.8 Sahul_Continent_10KYA_Papuan

Target: Mazandaran_Golestan_10KYA_IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso

Distance: 3.6231% / 0.03623062
76.4 Zagros_Mountains_10KYA_IRN_Wezmeh_N_WC1
17.4 North_Eurasia(ANE)_10KYA_RUS_AfontovaGora3
5.6 Satsurblia_CHG
0.4 Sahul_Continent_10KYA_Papuan

0.2 Southern_Europe_10KYA_ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

In conclusion, it is crystal clear that individuals from Hotu cave had prominent ANE and plausible CHG and Mediterranean shift compared to Wezmeh and Ganj Dareh Neolithic samples. The former shifts, especially ANE drift are responsible for making samples from Hotu cave less exotic both genetically and phenotypically in comparison to Wezmeh and Ganj Dareh samples
 

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
yes but it is very close to Iran N . the shift is not that big

she is the closest reconstruction we have for Iran N
 

Ben Dover

Moderator
Staff member
Country
India
yes but it is very close to Iran N . the shift is not that big

she is the closest reconstruction we have for Iran N
It is big enough. The distances show it as well

Distance to: Mazandaran_Golestan_10KYA_IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
0.06681728 Western_Iran_10KYA_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.08524079 Zagros_Mountains_10KYA_IRN_Wezmeh_N_WC1
 

Ben Dover

Moderator
Staff member
Country
India
One more thing. This is a personal opinion, however, in the future, this might be proven right once we have more reconstructions to work with. Iran_N in terms of pigmentation could have been very similar to Levant_N because both the former and the latter were not as exotic as Natufian but not much whiter either. They had to be somewhere in between Mediterranean and Natufian. Knowing that Levant_N was a hybrid of Natufian and Mediterranean, it is reasonable to assume that Iran_N, in the terms of pigmentation, could have been most similar to Levant_N other than Mesolithic North Iranians, who I believe were whiter than Neolithic Levantines. On the other hand, the cranial features of Neolithic Iranians would have been more similar to CHG's cranial features. It is a common misconception that people don't differentiate between Iran_N and CHG. The differences between the two were prominent, however they were closer to each other than they were to anything else
 

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
Target: Kurdish
Distance: 3.0486% / 0.03048635
36.0 Iranian_Hunter_Gatherer_Hotu
32.4 Barcin_N
20.4 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
10.4 Arabian_Hunter-Gatherer_Simulated
0.8 East_Eurasian

Target: fuckeeeeer_scaled
Distance: 4.0925% / 0.04092508
35.4 Iranian_Hunter_Gatherer_Hotu
35.0 Barcin_N
15.6 Caucasus_Hunter_Gatherer
11.4 Arabian_Hunter-Gatherer_Simulated

2.6 East_Eurasian
 

Ben Dover

Moderator
Staff member
Country
India
This one is better Faqa

Target: cs_scaled
Distance: 3.6214% / 0.03621357
37.6 Anatolia_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
29.2 Mazandaran_Golestan_10KYA_IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
14.6 Satsurblia_CHG
11.4 Arabian_Hunter-Gatherer_Simulated
5.0 Western_Siberia_10KYA_RUS_Tyumen_HG
1.2 South_Baltic_Coast_10KYA_Baltic_BA_HG_Simulated
1.0 East_Asia(north)_10KYA_CHN_Amur_River_9200BP
 

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
This one is better Faqa

Target: cs_scaled
Distance: 3.6214% / 0.03621357
37.6 Anatolia_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
29.2 Mazandaran_Golestan_10KYA_IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
14.6 Satsurblia_CHG
11.4 Arabian_Hunter-Gatherer_Simulated
5.0 Western_Siberia_10KYA_RUS_Tyumen_HG
1.2 South_Baltic_Coast_10KYA_Baltic_BA_HG_Simulated
1.0 East_Asia(north)_10KYA_CHN_Amur_River_9200BP

thanks . but catalhöyük probably eats up some Iran N . unless this is the pure med individual
 

Ben Dover

Moderator
Staff member
Country
India
thanks . but catalhöyük probably eats up some Iran N . unless this is the pure med individual
can you double check if you still have that Catalhoyuk pure med individual's coordinates? Because if we have them we can make better modelings
 

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
Mediterranean:Anatolia_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic:cth739,0.095611,0.168578,-0.019987,-0.111759,0.03139,-0.053547,-0.002585,-0.012692,0.028224,0.073441,0.01023,-0.003447,-0.028692,0.010735,-0.041666,-0.019093,0.019297,-0.00228,0.040098,-0.037393,-0.009733,0.006059,-0.000123,0.015906,-0.018082
 
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