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guess ethnicity of this family

Guti

Active member
If their armenian ancestors mixed with people like the ancestors of modern day meskhetian turks, I wouldn't be surprised
I have alwasy said that:

the Eastern Anatolian Turks = Turkified Armenians = Armenians with extra Turkic/Central Asian DNA
the Western Turks = Turkified Greeks = Greeks with extra Turkic/Central Asian DNA

This is what the Turks are basically are. Nothing more, nothing less..
 

Ben Dover

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India
In a recent past most of the Caucasus belonged to the Aryans and was part of the Persian Empire. The republic of Armenia didn't exist and Armenians never lived in the Caucasus.

Later on the Russian Empire conquered Aryan land in the Caucasus from the Persian Empire.

After the genocide, the Russians felt a little bit sorry for the Armenians are repopulated the Armenia refugees from the Armenian Plateau into the current Armenian republic


This is history.

Iran-under-1900s-qajars-wikimedia.png
There is no point in arguing with you even on this topic because you wouldn't understand anything, but I have to say that the fact that Iran occupied the territories of kartl-kakheti for most of the time from 16th century before 1801 is true. In 1801 russian empire annexed kartl-kakheti in hopes of "political and religious stability".

As for the armenians, they for the most part had settlements and important parts of their territories in armenian highlands and in modern day armenia. It is just idiotic and dishonest to claim otherwise.
 

Ben Dover

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I have alwasy said that:

the Eastern Anatolian Turks = Turkified Armenians = Armenians with extra Turkic/Central Asian DNA
the Western Turks = Turkified Greeks = Greeks with extra Turkic/Central Asian DNA

This is what the Turks are basically are. Nothing more, nothing less..
Eastern turks and SE turks are actually closer to kurds than to armenians. Only northeastern turks such as trabzon turks are closer to armenians than to kurds.
Western turks are heavily mixed with balkans hence they not only look different to turks from the east but they also plot considerably differently
 

Guti

Active member
There is no point in arguing with you even on this topic because you wouldn't understand anything, but I have to say that the fact that Iran occupied the territories of kartl-kakheti for most of the time from 16th century before 1801 is true. In 1801 russian empire annexed kartl-kakheti in hopes of "political and religious stability".

As for the armenians, they for the most part had settlements and important parts of their territories in armenian highlands and in modern day armenia. It is just idiotic and dishonest to claim otherwise.
Not true.
What do you mean by the 'armenian highlands'. Mount Ararat? If so, then it is true that Ararat is Armenian. But Ararat lies on the Armenian Plateau and not in the Caucaus.

Urartu were the 'original Armenians and they lived around the Mount Ararat. Mount Ararat = Armenian Plateau.

Ararat = Urartu
 

Guti

Active member
Eastern turks and SE turks are actually closer to kurds than to armenians.
I have seen many documents how Armenians were Islamized and became Turks and forgot their identity.

Kurds never forgot their identity. Turks and Kurds really didn't mix much at all. Kurds are Kurds like they were 3000 years ago, while Armenians virtually disappeared from the Armenians Plateau. Armenians who stayed in their original homeland became Turks.
 

Ben Dover

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Not true.
What do you mean by the 'armenian highlands'. Mount Ararat? If so, then it is true that Ararat is Armenian. But Ararat lies in the Armenian Plateau and not in the Caucaus.


Urartu were the 'original Armenians and they lived around the Mount Ararat. Mount Ararat = Armenian Plateau.

Ararat = Urartu
What do you mean by not true? by armenian highlands I mean the area between lake van and pontic mountains. This total area also encompasses mount ararat.
Urartu basically means mount ararat but it is said that the center of the urartian kingdom was lake van
 

Ben Dover

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I have seen many documents how Armenians were Islamized and became Turks and forgot their identity.

Kurds never forgot their identity. Turks and Kurds really didn't mix much at all. Kurds are Kurds like they were 3000 years ago, while Armenians virtually disappeared from the Armenians Plateau. Armenians who stayed in their original homeland became Turks.
That is false. Western armenians have been living in the armenian highlands since their ethnogenesis.

As for eastern and southeastern turks, they seem to be mostly descended from kurds or they are just kurds who identify as turks.
 

Guti

Active member
What do you mean by not true? by armenian highlands I mean the area between lake van and pontic mountains. This total area also encompasses mount ararat.
Urartu basically means mount ararat but it is said that the center of the urartian kingdom was lake van
Yeah, that is what I mean. The region you are describing is mostly the Armenian Plateau. But Armenians are NOT from the Caucasus. And the modern republic of Armenia is located in the Caucasus. Not their original land. This is what I mean
 

Guti

Active member
That is false. Western armenians have been living in the armenian highlands since their ethnogenesis.

As for eastern and southeastern turks, they seem to be mostly descended from kurds or they are just kurds who identify as turks.
Read better. Armenian Highlands/Plateau = historic Armenian lands. Never claimed the otherwise. But after the GENOCIDE most of them disappeared and became Turks.
 

Ben Dover

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Yeah, that is what I mean. The region you are describing is mostly the Armenian Plateau. But Armenians are NOT from the Caucasus. And the modern republic of Armenia is located in the Caucasus. Not their original land. This is what I mean
With the knowledge that I have right now, I agree that the ethnogenesis of armenians happened somewhere around lake van and its surroundings that are also a part of armenian highlands and not southern caucasus
 

Ben Dover

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Read better. Armenian Highlands/Plateau = historic Armenian lands. Never claimed the otherwise. But after the GENOCIDE most of them disappeared and became Turks.
Most of the western armenians migrated to armenia in the later years, but that doesn't mean that there are no armenians in the armenian plateau left
 

Guti

Active member
With the knowledge that I have right now, I agree that the ethnogenesis of armenians happened somewhere around lake van and its surroundings that are also a part of armenian highlands and not southern caucasus
And that is because the Caucasus belonged to the Aryans from the very beginning. Persians lost those lands to the Russians.
 

Guti

Active member
Most of the western armenians migrated to armenia in the later years, but that doesn't mean that there are no armenians in the armenian plateau left
Very few left in real Armenia around Ararat. Most of them are Turks now, some of them are even Kurdified..
 

Ben Dover

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And that is because the Caucasus belonged to the Aryans from the very beginning. Persians lost those lands to the Russians.
Caucasus belonged to ibero-caucasian tribes from the very beginning and not to iranic people. Let's end this here.
 

Ben Dover

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Very few left in real Armenia around Ararat. Most of them are Turks now, some of them are even Kurdified..
They retain their ethnic identity by simply being western armenians but as I said before, most of western armenians migrated to modern day armenia
 

Guti

Active member
Caucasus belonged to ibero-caucasian tribes from the very beginning and not to iranic people. Let's end this here.
No, since proto-Indo European Maykop era, Trialeti culture, the Medes etc. Caucaus was part of the Aryan people.

"Ibero-Caucasian tribes" were just a small minority in the Caucasus who lived isolated high in the mountains.
 

Ben Dover

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No, since proto-Indo European Maykop era, Trialeti culture, the Medes etc. Caucaus was part of the Aryan people.

"Ibero-Caucasian tribes" were just a small minority in the Caucasus who lived isolated high in the mountains.
No at one point ibero-caucasian people stretched all the way from kuma-manych depression to kura-araxes.

Medes were originally from western iran man. western iran isn't caucasus.
 

Guti

Active member
No at one point ibero-caucasian people stretched all the way from kuma-manych depression to kura-araxes.

Medes were originally from western iran man. western iran isn't caucasus.
Northern West Iran/Azerbaijan = Caucasus.

If you don't believe me read about the Median tribes who were called 'Mars' or 'Mard' who lived in the Caucasus.

Late Maykop as a proto-Indo-European culture predates Kura-Araxe culture. The Medes/Aryans are partly a product of the Late Maykop/Trialeti culture. Too much fake history has been spread online. Modern DNA is proving what I am telling you.


There was even a country called Red Kurdistan with native Kurdish people located in the Caucasus. Stalin ended Red Kurdistan and deported most Kurds from Red Kurdistan to Kazakhstan. Other Kurds became Azeri.
 

Ben Dover

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I didn't know about this. you are probably right that some turks from armenian highlands might be partly western armenian since their western amrneians ancestors converted to islam and started identifying as turks. However, I don't think that the ones who didn't convert to islam were 100% vanished and killed in western amrneian provinces, because at least after the genocide and after the armenian republic was created, some western armenians left their settlements and moved to armenia
 
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