Georgian Jews. What do you think about their overall phenotype?

[Ben Dover]

kurds are closer to georgians than assyrians and maybe even armenians are . maybe thats why

we have more EHG than most people nearby and also more Iran N . CHG is basically a EHG / WHG / Anatolia shifted version of Iran N

check eurogenes k12b for example . we score way more west european and north european than assyrians . georgians also often score several percent of it . and we have less southwest asian than both assyrians and armenians

Armenians are on par with kurds when it comes to SW asian.

 

[Ben Dover]

he looks afghan , egyptian , maybe jordanian and some kind of iranian too

He has got a "different" phenotype for sure

 

[Kurdquistador]

Armenians are on par with kurds when it comes to SW asian.

nope . we have less than armenians trust me . i checked it

we also have more "west central asian" though which you might argue is southwest asian shifted itself . but from a pure southwest asian component view we have less

 

[Ben Dover]

nope . we have less than armenians trust me . i checked it

we also have more "west central asian" though which you might argue is southwest asian shifted itself . but from a pure southwest asian component view we have less

Fam, I also checked it and often SW score for armenians and kurds is similar. It is like in 12-15% range

 

[Kurdquistador]

i have many armenian kits who score 16 - 20 %

 

[Ben Dover]

@skidrow As for the the closeness between georgians and kurds, here is the comparison between how close armenians from the republic and kurds plot to all the georgian groups.

Distance to:	Armenian
0.01682705	Armenian_Erzurum
0.02330422	Turkish_Trabzon
0.02382405	Greek_Trabzon
0.02678127	Georgian_Jew
0.02681328	Georgian_Meskheti
0.02807498	Armenian_Hemsheni
0.02980514	Udi
0.03037519	Assyrian
0.03184180	Mountain_Jew
0.03352390	Greek_Cappadocia
0.03571294	Georgian_Laz
0.03637322	Turkish_East
0.03708204	Ahiska
0.03763188	Georgian_Kartli
0.03859968	Georgian_Kakheti
0.03903776	Iranian_Jew
0.04009056	Dersim
0.04097301	Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.04260608	Kurdish_Jew
0.04419188	Kurdish
0.04519228	Iraqi_Jew
0.04718715	Ezid
0.04722030	Bukharian_Jew
0.04844959	Syrian_Kurd
0.04860084	Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.04873394	Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.04898728	Georgian_Adjar
0.04913171	Turkish_Kayseri
0.05207736	Lebanese_Druze
0.05213598	Druze
0.05279340	Syrian_West
0.05317348	Iranian_Lor
0.05571451	Azerbaijani
0.05635676	Lebanese_Muslim
0.05637662	Turkish_Adana
0.05695746	Georgian_Imereti
0.05725408	Syrian_Jew
0.05742166	Cypriot
0.05808138	Iranian_Persian_North
0.05827426	Karaite_Egypt
0.05933060	Georgian_Tusheti
0.06005257	Georgian_Khevsur
0.06063461	Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.06114832	Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.06127892	Iranian_Persian_Central
0.06227029	Greek_Dodecanese
0.06310166	Lebanese_Christian
0.06321253	Turkish_Central
0.06422640	Greek_Kos
0.06428149	Georgian_Megrelia
0.06433408	Abkhasian
0.06526542	Iranian_Fars
0.06591409	Iranian_Azeri
0.06661246	Iranian_Persian_South
0.06760151	Iraqi
0.06911708	Greek_Crete
0.07096131	Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.07170943	Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.07222505	Romaniote_Jew
0.07233049	Iranian_Arab_Khuzestan
0.07323150	Georgian_Svan
0.07360629	Iranian_Mazandarani
0.07498872	Adygei
0.07551146	Sephardic_Jew
0.07602793	Sephardic_Jew_o
0.07626327	Ossetian
0.07818369	Kumyk
0.07825192	Ingushian
0.07921275	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.08006025	Italian_Calabria

Distance to:	Kurdish
0.01572802	Dersim
0.01591360	Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.01628422	Ezid
0.01857581	Iranian_Lor
0.02041861	Syrian_Kurd
0.02295316	Iranian_Persian_North
0.02373310	Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.02425308	Iranian_Persian_Central
0.02435940	Bukharian_Jew
0.02801516	Iranian_Fars
0.02802702	Turkish_East
0.02926226	Iranian_Persian_South
0.03013346	Udi
0.03271482	Azerbaijani
0.03395416	Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.03723580	Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.03955614	Iranian_Mazandarani
0.03961406	Georgian_Jew
0.03985495	Mountain_Jew
0.03985504	Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.04043269	Assyrian
0.04157439	Iranian_Azeri
0.04160754	Georgian_Meskheti
0.04419188	Armenian
0.04482742	Iranian_Jew
0.04553614	Turkish_Adana
0.04594017	Turkish_Kayseri
0.04630891	Armenian_Erzurum
0.04873182	Georgian_Kakheti
0.05199588	Georgian_Kartli
0.05376121	Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05451862	Kurdish_Jew
0.05505227	Ahiska
0.05526804	Turkish_Central
0.05657971	Turkish_Trabzon
0.05724045	Georgian_Khevsur
0.05862152	Greek_Trabzon
0.05899825	Georgian_Tusheti
0.06047110	Iranian_Arab_Khuzestan
0.06095974	Georgian_Laz
0.06144463	Iraqi_Jew
0.06156988	Iraqi
0.06235891	Syrian_West
0.06441403	Kumyk
0.06542715	Greek_Cappadocia
0.06655189	Georgian_Adjar
0.06838591	Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.06903285	Iranian_Persian_East
0.06906921	Lebanese_Muslim
0.06933162	Lebanese_Druze
0.06998141	Druze
0.07037778	Ingushian
0.07099823	Abkhasian
0.07184617	Adygei
0.07226478	Turkish_North
0.07254738	Georgian_Imereti
0.07315666	Chechen
0.07394896	Ossetian
0.07441554	Karachay
0.07490000	Kabardin
0.07513870	Circassian
0.07622589	Syrian_Jew
0.07646922	Turkish_South
0.07665704	North_Ossetian
0.07677260	Parsi_Pakistan
0.07707138	Cherkes
0.07753786	Karaite_Egypt
0.07791728	Georgian_Megrelia
0.07796218	Balkar
0.07833074	Tabasaran
0.07947952	Iraqi_Arab
0.07957288	Parsi_India
0.07995535	Abazin
0.07999175	Turkish_Southwest
0.08131082	Cypriot
0.08179056	Georgian_Svan
0.08196818	Lebanese_Christian
0.08237978	Iranian_Bandari
0.08546540	Greek_Dodecanese
0.08559416	Avar
0.08575630	Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.08580148	Greek_Kos
0.08580854	Sephardic_Jew_o
0.08590428	Syrian_East
0.08632584	Lak
0.08651602	Turkish_Northwest
0.08830787	Kaitag
0.08939932	Greek_Crete
0.09065610	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.09105634	Kubachinian

 

[Ben Dover]

i have many armenian kits who score 16 - 20 %

They are either mixed or some atypical western armenians

 

[Kurdquistador]

as i said even if the distances on the list show that armenians are slightly closer ....you have to read between the lines . we have way more EHG than armenians . and less southwest asian (we do have less) .

on dodecad k12b for example we have more north euro than armenians they have almost none usually . and georgians have even more than us . and we have less southwest asian than armenians usually and georgians have also less

 

[Ben Dover]

as i said even if the distances on the list show that armenians are slightly closer ....you have to read between the lines . we have way more EHG than armenians . and less southwest asian (we do have less) .

on dodecad k12b for example we have more north euro than armenians they have almost none usually . and georgians have even more than us . and we have less southwest asian than armenians usually and georgians have also less

I am not arguing against kurds having more EHG and more northern euro than armenians but honestly who cares.. The fact is that they are marginally closer to all the georgian groups. As for the SW Asian the numbers for both kurds and armenians are extremely similar. I don't know why you keep claiming otherwise.

 

[Kurdquistador]

I am not arguing against kurds having more EHG and more northern euro than armenians but honestly who cares.. The fact is that they are marginally closer to all the georgian groups. As for the SW Asian the numbers for both kurds and armenians are extremely similar. I don't know why you keep claiming otherwise.

i am only saying it because one has to read between the lines when concluding if a population is closer to another . in the pop list armenians are a little closer to georgians yes .....but the fact that we have more EHG and less natufian makes us AT LEAST equally close to georgians as them . not even talking about assyrians that is totally clear . i will post eurogenes k12b results of kurds and assyrians in a minute

i am stressing on the southwest asian thing because there are many armenians who have more than us . and yes especially western armenians . they should be included . i mean people love to use kurds from the most southern places or even mixed kurds so it is just fair to use west armenians too

i am open to compare any armenian and assyrian kit to us

also i am saying these things because they explain why georgian jews look similar to us . and also why eastern and southern georgians have overlap with us

 

[Kurdquistador]

Eurogenes k12b

not only do we have more west european + north european . we also have a lot less southwest asian than assyrians

we also look accordingly phenotypically


Assyrians

Kurds

 

[Ben Dover]

i am only saying it because one has to read between the lines when concluding if a population is closer to another . in the pop list armenians are a little closer to georgians yes .....but the fact that we have more EHG and less natufian makes us AT LEAST equally close to georgians as them . not even talking about assyrians that is totally clear . i will post eurogenes k12b results of kurds and assyrians in a minute

i am stressing on the southwest asian thing because there are many armenians who have more than us . and yes especially western armenians . they should be included . i mean people love to use kurds from the most southern places or even mixed kurds so it is just fair to use west armenians too

i am open to compare any armenian and assyrian kit to us

also i am saying these things because they explain why georgian jews look similar to us . and also why eastern and southern georgians have overlap with us

Go ahead. Post them

More EHG and northern euro component in kurds makes them closer to georgians, but autosomally armenians are still closer to georgians. Maybe because armenians have more CHG than kurds and similar amounts of SW Asian.

I was never talking about southern shifted kurds or anything like that. I was just talking about the regular kurdish results I have seen. Using western armenians isn't fair, because the core armenian population is eatern armenian. Why don't you include hemsheni armenians then?

 

[Ben Dover]

Eurogenes k12b

Assyrians

Kurds

8 and 10% SW asian kurds are atypical. Even from the results you have sent, most fall between 12-16% which is very similar to what I said before

 

[Kurdquistador]

hemshins are a small subgroup of armenians . and they have less southwest asian than all other armenians . but funnily enough iirc they have only a little less than us lel

but sure you can include them aswell . wont change much . you will see that overall armenians have more sw-asian than us

and i didnt cherrypick the kurdish results . they are the kits i have . and they are not rare . and where do you see 16 % ....it is 12 - 15 %

 

[Ben Dover]

hemshins are a small subgroup of armenians . and they have less southwest asian than all other armenians . but funnily enough iirc they have only a little less than us lel

but sure you can include them aswell . wont change much . you will see that overall armenians have more sw-asian than us

and i didnt cherrypick the kurdish results . they are the kits i have . and they are not rare . and where do you see 16 % ....it is 12 - 15 %

Some of them were more than 15 and that's why

 

[Kurdquistador]

Some of them were more than 15 and that's why

yeah like 15.32 . lol . nice "rounding up"

by the way since we talk about hemshins

lets also include kazakhstan kurds then . they are very kurdish and didnt mix with outsiders

run them yourself and see ......

KAZ_Kurd1198 - SP9841700

KAZ_Kurd1160 - QJ9235600

KAZ_Kurd1173 - NW6581480

KAZ_Kurd1101 - GK5991373


KAZ_Kurd1156 - ED1991550


KAZ_Kurd1159 - TW4116734

 

[Ben Dover]

@skidrow please show me eastern armenian results that have more SW asian than kurds

 

[Ben Dover]

yeah like 15.32 . lol . nice "rounding up"

by the way since we talk about hemshins

lets also include kazakhstan kurds then . they are very kurdish and didnt mix with outsiders

run them yourself and see ......

KAZ_Kurd1198 - SP9841700

KAZ_Kurd1160 - QJ9235600

KAZ_Kurd1173 - NW6581480

KAZ_Kurd1101 - GK5991373


KAZ_Kurd1156 - ED1991550


KAZ_Kurd1159 - TW4116734

Relax. It is more than 15% still so that's why I said 16 as the maximum extent. I am too lazy now to run them myself

 

[Kurdquistador]

@skidrow please show me eastern armenian results that have more SW asian than kurds

do you have eastern armenian kits ?

i have armenian kits whose names are armenian but i dont know if they are western or eastern armenians

 

[Guti]

K12b is a great tool, but it is not perfect in showing the distances. It has its own huge inaccuracies.

According to the academic studies even Persians are closer to the Georgians compared to the Armenians. And I think that the Kurds are closer to the Georgians than the Persians are.

When you study this graph you can see that the Armenians are actually borderline Northern West Asian who are heavily shifted toward Southern West Asia.

Kurds have by far much more Caucaso-Aryan ancestry than any Armenian from anywhere on this planet does have.


Also, don't forget that we do also have by far much more ANE ancestry than the Armenians do.