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G25 Maltese & Jews - Ancients

Ponto

Active member
I did this for fun, to see how I stack against other Malts, and our Jewish friends. I am still 100% Malta on AncestryDNA

Jews.jpgMalts.jpg
 

Ponto

Active member
That is how it was labelled, it is the Grotta continenza sample from Abruzzo. I didn't change the labels. A lot of those labels are not apt.
Southern_Europe_10KYA:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso,0.1225497,0.1120467,0.2008793,0.2048907,0.1728527,0.0618207,0.0160593,0.0412293,0.108602,0.0271533,-0.0193243,-0.0143373,0.0162043,-0.0086703,0.0708007,0.069035,0.0002173,0.0120353,-0.0099303,0.0637807,0.118,0.0113347,-0.0608843,-0.1971763,0.021994
 

Ponto

Active member
TUR_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic:CCH294,0.093335,0.174671,-0.017348,-0.13017,0.038776,-0.06526,-0.0094,-0.026307,0.022498,0.05868,0.023384,0.012439,-0.006987,0.000275,-0.037052,-0.032219,0.026077,0.005448,0.006159,0.004377,-0.024457,0.011994,-0.0053,0.000723,-0.001317
Levant_10KYA:Levant_Natufian_I0861,0.01935,0.135065,-0.039221,-0.135984,0.026774,-0.076137,-0.019036,-0.024691,0.100626,-0.008018,0.02858,-0.019633,0.067343,0.001651,0.022801,0.02612,-0.0103,0.006714,-0.018101,0.041395,-0.004118,-0.003215,-0.014297,-0.011206,0.011975
Southern_Europe_10KYA:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso,0.1225497,0.1120467,0.2008793,0.2048907,0.1728527,0.0618207,0.0160593,0.0412293,0.108602,0.0271533,-0.0193243,-0.0143373,0.0162043,-0.0086703,0.0708007,0.069035,0.0002173,0.0120353,-0.0099303,0.0637807,0.118,0.0113347,-0.0608843,-0.1971763,0.021994
Western_Iran_10KYA:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Caucasus_10KYA:GEO_CHG_KK1,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
Northwest_Africa_10KYA:MAR_Taforalt_TAF011,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara_average,0.1252054,0.0891408,0.0430338,0.1150967,-0.0285181,0.0453663,0.0046478,-0.002513,-0.0555623,-0.0727931,0.0006676,0.0005994,-0.0030724,-0.023564,0.0363427,0.0152183,-0.0007246,-0.0015204,-0.0039106,0.0140344,-0.0036879,0.000426,0.0109278,0.0184497,-0.0043241

The target groups are mostly from the "100" that you posted, the Jews.

Ashkenazi_Belarussia,0.1019155,0.1339716,-0.0073393,-0.0395799,0.0107712,-0.0144595,-0.0010123,-0.0010294,0.0057267,0.0146208,0.0024485,-0.0003688,0.00231,-0.001461,-0.002944,0.0027944,0.0018154,-0.0003409,0.0014889,-0.0012602,-0.0038586,-0.0007705,0.0027399,0.0015665,-0.0002949
Ashkenazi_Germany,0.0973188,0.1423773,-0.014406,-0.0499358,0.010925,-0.0187694,-0.001974,-0.0017538,0.0098579,0.0188432,0.0039622,-0.0011239,0.0025123,-0.0026699,-0.0050489,0.0030892,0.0022035,-0.0016977,-0.0007794,-0.0011255,-0.0033441,-0.0026957,0.0008751,0.0013857,0.0008143
Ashkenazi_Lithuania,0.0998539,0.1327575,-0.0092224,-0.040375,0.0094843,-0.0141475,-0.0005555,-0.001175,0.0060613,0.0137009,0.0015499,-0.0018529,0.0025678,0.0006257,-0.0044417,0.0034595,0.0016001,0.0001612,0.0004455,-0.0031721,-0.0032555,-0.0033497,0.0029245,0.0024428,-0.001056
Ashkenazi_Poland,0.1001169,0.1368425,-0.0073382,-0.0429994,0.0097966,-0.0154087,-0.0008812,-0.0008942,0.0081981,0.0142751,0.0011639,-0.0005932,0.0028802,0.0001662,-0.0041451,-0.001674,-0.0037648,3.18e-05,-0.0008065,-0.0040645,-0.0026776,-0.0022721,0.0016895,0.002169,0.0015267
Ashkenazi_Russia,0.1011888,0.131511,-0.0064488,-0.0382755,0.0103711,-0.014335,-0.0019505,-0.0001847,0.0065447,0.0140506,0.0011205,0.0002997,0.0021408,0.0003303,-0.0050352,-0.0002651,-0.0012125,-0.0005701,-0.0021367,-0.0031266,-0.0035687,-0.0029553,0.0006286,0.0045788,-0.0012214
Ashkenazi_Ukraine,0.0994244,0.1351162,-0.005506,-0.0401166,0.0120483,-0.0142652,-0.0010928,0.0001154,0.007772,0.0129388,0.0008038,0.0001125,0.0024156,0.0005229,-0.0028297,-0.0018297,-0.0043223,-1.9e-05,0.0012758,-0.0046772,-0.0031258,-0.0025904,0.0007702,0.0021028,0.0010059
Sephardic_Jew,0.0907738,0.145094,-0.0233814,-0.0609662,0.0057318,-0.0219276,-0.0054344,-0.002596,0.0116579,0.0199775,0.004202,0.0001688,5.56e-05,-0.0005678,-0.00436,-0.0065301,-0.0081814,-0.000475,-0.0013355,-0.0065658,-0.0048508,-0.0059044,0.001217,0.0025606,0.0024399
Sephardic_Jew_o,0.0916275,0.1376045,-0.0147075,-0.0444125,-0.001077,-0.014642,-0.0024675,-0.0002305,0.00634,0.0180415,0.006333,0.001798,0.003196,-0.001376,-0.0084825,0.008353,0.0025425,0.0054475,-0.0067245,-0.0025635,0.0003745,-0.0062445,0.002773,0.0042175,-0.0010775
Italian_Jew,0.0949283,0.1456271,-0.0186674,-0.0564927,0.0112941,-0.0245423,-0.003995,-0.002792,0.0128851,0.0191349,0.0045143,0.00021,0.0021557,-0.0028762,-0.0066097,-0.0012331,-0.0011995,-0.0010515,-0.0011187,-0.0035893,-0.0039059,-0.0015456,-0.000123,0.0023617,0.0028741
Romaniote_Jew,0.0920339,0.1440601,-0.0258057,-0.0645539,0.0050117,-0.023068,-0.0058414,-0.0043184,0.009145,0.018536,0.0056139,0.0011133,0.0019961,-0.0001964,-0.0068247,-0.0015723,0.0007264,-0.0024976,-0.0007363,-0.0005004,-0.0008734,0.0003886,0.0003699,0.0010844,0.0013341
Samaritan,0.0853674,0.1486734,-0.0573978,-0.0925072,-0.0096018,-0.0350286,-0.002209,-0.0081688,0.016321,0.008237,0.0091586,-0.0099212,0.0204854,0.0118632,-0.0055372,0.0021214,-0.011239,0.0010134,0.0021116,-0.003652,-0.0005242,0.003116,0.000567,-0.0029402,0.0046462
Syrian_Jew,0.0870745,0.142682,-0.0358265,-0.066538,-0.005847,-0.0220325,-0.0043475,-0.002423,0.0006135,0.008383,0.0064145,0.0004495,0.0055,-0.0002065,-0.0001355,0.0007955,-0.003977,-0.002534,-0.0037705,-0.004815,0.001248,-0.003277,0.0030195,-0.001807,0.002335
Iraqi_Jew,0.0891613,0.1404817,-0.0664988,-0.0757435,-0.023081,-0.020452,-0.0008617,-0.0081533,-0.0110443,-0.0013973,0.0038703,-0.0045458,0.0114718,0.0068125,-0.0076457,0.0080882,-0.004933,-0.0005913,0.0031425,-0.0114012,0.000395,-0.0037302,-0.0033483,-0.0038358,0.001996
Iranian_Jew,0.092829,0.1321318,-0.0645294,-0.0642411,-0.0321084,-0.0145023,0.0006006,-0.0045128,-0.012067,-0.0026324,0.0063512,-0.002681,0.0113312,-4.6e-05,-0.0018849,0.0097084,-0.0058819,0.0028296,0.005838,-0.0116306,-4.17e-05,-0.0009341,-0.0038618,-0.0004687,0.0005054
Yemenite_Jew,0.051383,0.1447854,-0.0632486,-0.114066,-0.0118263,-0.0466941,-0.0134963,-0.0088677,0.0489689,-0.006274,0.0113209,-0.0266121,0.0539851,0.0032439,0.0035287,0.0171607,-0.0245497,0.003475,0.0064106,0.0249583,0.012888,0.0159867,-0.0070954,0.0046479,-0.0068941
Georgian_Jew,0.0993513,0.1299879,-0.0591541,-0.060724,-0.0277854,-0.0134666,0.0002014,-0.0053734,-0.0210953,-0.0040351,0.0032246,-0.0019696,0.0064347,0.0008454,-0.001144,0.007463,0.0010803,-0.0032577,0.0030887,-0.0019116,0.0027631,0.0039216,0.000493,-0.0037524,0.0039344
Kurdish_Jew,0.0924244,0.1344562,-0.0656946,-0.073644,-0.0304056,-0.0227018,0.002867,-0.0072922,-0.0125166,-0.0024418,0.0049364,-0.0073734,0.0122794,0.003358,-0.0043704,0.0097586,-0.0025032,0.0014444,0.0033436,-0.0050774,0.0016972,0.0017804,-0.0023418,-0.0004338,0.002347
Karaite_Egypt,0.077969,0.142682,-0.047329,-0.0728365,-0.0092325,-0.0202195,-0.0015275,-0.002308,-0.00092,0.0061045,0.0060085,-0.0079425,0.0109265,0.0049545,-0.006379,-0.0012595,-0.009257,-0.0036105,-0.001131,-0.0003755,-0.0056775,-0.000309,-0.0023415,0.0022895,-6e-05
Libyan_Jew,0.0678384,0.1454238,-0.0288876,-0.0684114,0.004493,-0.0244308,-0.0058282,-0.0046612,0.0199206,0.0201552,0.005391,-0.001049,0.0079088,-0.001514,-0.0005156,0.0023602,-0.0041986,-0.0013936,-0.0061842,-0.0026264,-0.0015972,-0.0079384,0.0079372,-0.0024582,0.0023708
Moroccan_Jew,0.0782535,0.1429358,-0.017442,-0.0616122,0.0108482,-0.0191038,-0.0105755,-0.0017308,0.0162595,0.0236908,0.0079165,-0.0028472,0.0062435,-0.0051952,0.0050215,0.0032815,-0.0016625,-0.0044022,-0.0127897,-0.00544,-0.0016532,-0.008532,0.0094902,-0.0015662,0.0010778
Tunisian_Jew,0.0705704,0.1462363,-0.0282301,-0.0737363,0.0034731,-0.0259767,-0.0077214,0.0003953,0.0204524,0.0212436,0.0057996,-0.0033186,0.0071571,0.000413,-0.0005236,-0.0029927,-0.0033343,-0.0013937,-0.0067159,-0.0022689,-0.0038147,-0.0082849,0.0036096,0.00136,0.0019329
Sicilia:Sicilian_East,0.1031997,0.1465747,-0.007291,-0.0411287,0.0178493,-0.0153393,-0.0019583,7.7e-05,0.0075673,0.0213217,0.0073073,0.0038967,-0.0061447,0.0031193,-0.0059263,-0.006497,-0.0028683,-0.00114,0.0044833,-0.003877,-4.13e-05,0.0026793,-0.0018897,0.0022893,0.000399
Sicilia:Sicilian_West,0.1001643,0.1455593,-0.0003773,-0.03553,0.019388,-0.0098543,-0.0006267,0.0005383,0.013362,0.0222937,0.00341,0.0030973,-0.00223,0.0018807,-0.002262,-0.003182,-0.0018687,-4.23e-05,-0.00088,-0.006128,0.000832,0.0008243,-0.0032043,-0.0034943,0.0002393
Italian_Calabria,0.1028203,0.1462363,-0.011942,-0.0466197,0.0125147,-0.0117133,-0.0024283,-0.0031537,0.0044993,0.0215037,0.000433,0.0027977,-0.0055003,-0.000963,-0.009636,-0.0052593,0.0068237,0.0009713,0.0051537,-0.003043,-0.0026203,-0.0023907,-0.0001643,0.0037753,0.00012
PontoH,0.102482,0.152428,-0.017962,-0.057146,0.007850,-0.019044,-0.000889,-0.001851,0.004523,0.020599,0.002722,0.002254,-0.001413,0.001266,-0.009078,-0.001767,0.001976,-0.000826,0.001296,-0.001889,-0.003220,-0.000499,0.000448,0.000059,-0.000440
 

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
my result :

Target: fuckeeeeer_scaled

Distance: 3.8448% / 0.03844788

42.0 TUR_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
35.6 Western_Iran_10KYA
19.8 Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya

2.6 Levant_10KYA
 

Ponto

Active member
Yes I know, but that is how it was labelled. Of course the Yamnaya can be replaced, by EHG, the CHG is already in the coords.
 

Ben Dover

Moderator
Staff member
Country
India
you have strange results compared to other maltese : higher EEF and lower steppe
He refuses to post his distance list because the jews would come up first in the oracle. But yes even though he is deviated from the maltese average he is still similar to ashkenazis. Nothing astonishing there.
 

Ponto

Active member
I am not interested in the Jews. They are faux Europeans, I want Europeans that descend from people resident in Europe for thousands of years from the Mesolithic, Neolithic and Bronze age. That isn't Jews, they are a creation of the first millenium CE, before that their Middle Eastern male contributors were irritating their neighbours and the Romans, and losing. Their European ancestry comes from Central Italian women, and some Russian men after moving to the Russias. Jews are on par with Romani, Gagauz and Tatars. I don't want the slag, I want the bullion.
 

Ben Dover

Moderator
Staff member
Country
India
Here is the neolithic model in the beginning of the thread. Then there is your response. Further comments are not needed.
 

Ponto

Active member
This may bore some, but it shows the relationship of these ethnic groups to each other around the Mediterranean basin . It is a PCA of Mediterranean basin populations including Jewish population.

Mediterranean_PCA_Vahaduo1.jpg
 

Beowulf

Well-known member
Country
Spain
TUR_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic:CCH294,0.093335,0.174671,-0.017348,-0.13017,0.038776,-0.06526,-0.0094,-0.026307,0.022498,0.05868,0.023384,0.012439,-0.006987,0.000275,-0.037052,-0.032219,0.026077,0.005448,0.006159,0.004377,-0.024457,0.011994,-0.0053,0.000723,-0.001317
Levant_10KYA:Levant_Natufian_I0861,0.01935,0.135065,-0.039221,-0.135984,0.026774,-0.076137,-0.019036,-0.024691,0.100626,-0.008018,0.02858,-0.019633,0.067343,0.001651,0.022801,0.02612,-0.0103,0.006714,-0.018101,0.041395,-0.004118,-0.003215,-0.014297,-0.011206,0.011975
Southern_Europe_10KYA:ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso,0.1225497,0.1120467,0.2008793,0.2048907,0.1728527,0.0618207,0.0160593,0.0412293,0.108602,0.0271533,-0.0193243,-0.0143373,0.0162043,-0.0086703,0.0708007,0.069035,0.0002173,0.0120353,-0.0099303,0.0637807,0.118,0.0113347,-0.0608843,-0.1971763,0.021994
Western_Iran_10KYA:IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Caucasus_10KYA:GEO_CHG_KK1,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
Northwest_Africa_10KYA:MAR_Taforalt_TAF011,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara_average,0.1252054,0.0891408,0.0430338,0.1150967,-0.0285181,0.0453663,0.0046478,-0.002513,-0.0555623,-0.0727931,0.0006676,0.0005994,-0.0030724,-0.023564,0.0363427,0.0152183,-0.0007246,-0.0015204,-0.0039106,0.0140344,-0.0036879,0.000426,0.0109278,0.0184497,-0.0043241

Target: IvorixG25_Scaled
Distance: 5.5818% / 0.05581789
48.2TUR_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
34.0Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya
14.4Southern_Europe_10KYA
3.4Northwest_Africa_10KYA
 

Ponto

Active member
I know you are not 100% ethnic Spaniard, but your results are probably what all Mediterranean Europeans were like before the coming of late Bronze age and Iron age immigrants from Anatolia, West Iran and the south Caucasus that affected Italy especially the south, and the Balkans. The Balkans experienced waves of Slavic speaking immigrants that shifted the Greeks away from the Italians. The precursors of the Ashkenazi Jews probably already had that ancestry before they came to Europe from the Near East and intermixed with Central Italians.
 

Kurdquistador

Moderator
Staff member
This may bore some, but it shows the relationship of these ethnic groups to each other around the Mediterranean basin . It is a PCA of Mediterranean basin populations including Jewish population.

View attachment 6224

we Kurds would be around there were turks armenians and assyrians are

our mediterraneanness has been taken away from us in forums . pretty sad actually since we have a lot of med genes and phenotypes and also are from the mediterranean
 

Ponto

Active member
The drafters of that PCA plot did not purposely go out their way to exclude West Asians or North Caucasus ethnic groups or native North Africans who also live around the Mediterranean Basin. It probably did not occur to them to include those ethnic groups. Kurds are not really considered much in genetic studies A remiss and missed opportunity. They usually go for Iranians because of all that Aryan mythos. I haven't seen genetic studies specifically on Israeli Jews who came from Europe, North Africa, Arabic, India, Africa... the wandering Jews. There is a non native plant in Australia called Wandering Jew, guess what? It is a weed, a pest species.
I wouldn't have included the Jews either because they are neither Near Eastern nor European but from both groups. A mule is neither a donkey nor a horse. That is the problem of admixed people like the gypsies, mestizos, mulatoes, european/east asian admixed, their placement on a PCA is meaningless. The children of an Ashkenazi Jew and and an English person would plot in eastern France, does it make those children French? No.
 
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