this is a north caucasus guy . he scores more west-central asian than kurdish average haha
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Kurdish Eurogenes K12b results
- Thread starter Kurdquistador
- Start date
FinalFlash
Active member
One big cluttered mess lol. Sorry but if that's what it says on this PCA then it doesn't agree with admix oracles. Seems like we have a bit of a conundrum here.Here you can see that the Ezdi Kurds are more shifted toward other Caucasians that the Armenians do
Ancient human genome-wide data from a 3000-year interval in the Caucasus corresponds with eco-geographic regions - Nature Communications
The Caucasus mountain range has impacted on the culture and genetics of the wider region. Here, the authors generate genome-wide SNP data for 45 Eneolithic and Bronze Age individuals across the Caucasus, and find distinct genetic clusters between mountain and steppe zones as well as occasional...www.nature.com
FinalFlash
Active member
And less Caucasus than the average. Is clearly some sort of NE Caucasian like maybe a Lezgin.this is a north caucasus guy . he scores more west-central asian than kurdish average haha
yes i think it is a kaitag . according to bro imhere
stop attacking finalflash
and stop talking nonsense .
and stop talking nonsense .
i didnt disagree with that . we have more ANE than armenians i think
but that doesnt make us more caucasus than them lol
FinalFlash
Active member
You sound like you're coping hard.
lol
^ yeah i can totally see that armenians are as northern as saudis
Not Saudis, but you can see them as the northern shifted Levantines.Closer to the Africans.
and thats what you believe ? really ?
FinalFlash
Active member
I modeled various Armenian subgroups using Lebanese and various Georgian subgroups as sources here:
Target Distance Georgian_Meskheti Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.01381471 70.4 29.6
Armenian_Erzurum 0.01716229 80.4 19.6
Armenian_Gesaria 0.01980053 80.8 19.2
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.02587895 100.0 0.0
Armenian_Syunik 0.02270730 94.2 5.8
Armenian_Urfa 0.01531826 67.8 32.2
Average 0.01911367 82.3 17.7
Target Distance Georgian_Kart Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.01780904 46.0 54.0
Armenian_Erzurum 0.01573516 54.8 45.2
Armenian_Gesaria 0.01459153 56.2 43.8
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.02155784 77.2 22.8
Armenian_Syunik 0.01533844 66.0 34.0
Armenian_Urfa 0.01670168 45.2 54.8
Average 0.01695562 57.6 42.4
Target Distance Georgian_Laz Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.01443565 52.0 48.0
Armenian_Erzurum 0.01788112 59.4 40.6
Armenian_Gesaria 0.01819190 60.6 39.4
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.01132812 87.6 12.4
Armenian_Syunik 0.02525057 68.6 31.4
Armenian_Urfa 0.01469743 50.6 49.4
Average 0.01696413 63.1 36.9
Target Distance Georgian_Ajar Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.01567483 43.6 56.4
Armenian_Erzurum 0.01869355 50.0 50.0
Armenian_Gesaria 0.01979638 50.6 49.4
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.01391697 73.8 26.2
Armenian_Syunik 0.02570963 58.0 42.0
Armenian_Urfa 0.01637414 42.2 57.8
Average 0.01836092 53.0 47.0
Target Distance Georgian_Megr Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.01871184 36.6 63.4
Armenian_Erzurum 0.02055248 42.4 57.6
Armenian_Gesaria 0.02071730 43.4 56.6
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.01876518 62.6 37.4
Armenian_Syunik 0.02577098 49.8 50.2
Armenian_Urfa 0.01862382 35.6 64.4
Average 0.02052360 45.1 54.9
Target Distance Georgian_Khevs Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.02196958 36.6 63.4
Armenian_Erzurum 0.02047030 44.2 55.8
Armenian_Gesaria 0.02007347 45.4 54.6
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.03286979 60.6 39.4
Armenian_Syunik 0.01774830 54.6 45.4
Armenian_Urfa 0.02274444 35.2 64.8
Average 0.02264598 46.1 53.9
Armenian_Aintab 0.01381471 70.4 29.6
Armenian_Erzurum 0.01716229 80.4 19.6
Armenian_Gesaria 0.01980053 80.8 19.2
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.02587895 100.0 0.0
Armenian_Syunik 0.02270730 94.2 5.8
Armenian_Urfa 0.01531826 67.8 32.2
Average 0.01911367 82.3 17.7
Target Distance Georgian_Kart Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.01780904 46.0 54.0
Armenian_Erzurum 0.01573516 54.8 45.2
Armenian_Gesaria 0.01459153 56.2 43.8
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.02155784 77.2 22.8
Armenian_Syunik 0.01533844 66.0 34.0
Armenian_Urfa 0.01670168 45.2 54.8
Average 0.01695562 57.6 42.4
Target Distance Georgian_Laz Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.01443565 52.0 48.0
Armenian_Erzurum 0.01788112 59.4 40.6
Armenian_Gesaria 0.01819190 60.6 39.4
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.01132812 87.6 12.4
Armenian_Syunik 0.02525057 68.6 31.4
Armenian_Urfa 0.01469743 50.6 49.4
Average 0.01696413 63.1 36.9
Target Distance Georgian_Ajar Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.01567483 43.6 56.4
Armenian_Erzurum 0.01869355 50.0 50.0
Armenian_Gesaria 0.01979638 50.6 49.4
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.01391697 73.8 26.2
Armenian_Syunik 0.02570963 58.0 42.0
Armenian_Urfa 0.01637414 42.2 57.8
Average 0.01836092 53.0 47.0
Target Distance Georgian_Megr Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.01871184 36.6 63.4
Armenian_Erzurum 0.02055248 42.4 57.6
Armenian_Gesaria 0.02071730 43.4 56.6
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.01876518 62.6 37.4
Armenian_Syunik 0.02577098 49.8 50.2
Armenian_Urfa 0.01862382 35.6 64.4
Average 0.02052360 45.1 54.9
Target Distance Georgian_Khevs Lebanese_Christian
Armenian_Aintab 0.02196958 36.6 63.4
Armenian_Erzurum 0.02047030 44.2 55.8
Armenian_Gesaria 0.02007347 45.4 54.6
Armenian_Hemsheni 0.03286979 60.6 39.4
Armenian_Syunik 0.01774830 54.6 45.4
Armenian_Urfa 0.02274444 35.2 64.8
Average 0.02264598 46.1 53.9
Eastern and Hamshentsi Armenians are basically 95-100% Meskhetian-like in that model. Even the other subgroups are predominantly Meskhetian-like.
Using Laz and Kartlians is where it gets a bit interesting. Armenians from Urfa and Aintab can be modeled roughly 50/50 being the most East Med shifted while Erzurum and Gesaria is still a bit closer to Laz and Kartlians. Syunik and especially Hamshen are still 66-87% Kartlian/Laz-like in these models
Megrels being NW Georgians are among the purest CHG-like modern day specimens. It's logical that Aintab and Urfa would be noticeably closer to Lebanese in this case than to NW Georgians. Syunik in this scenario can be modeled as 50% NW Georgian and 50% Leb. The Hamshen are still noticeably closer to NW Georgians.
Khevsurs are very NE-Caucasian like given their excess steppe admix so they're fairly different to their NW counterparts. Here is where the fit kinda worsens for Hamshentsi(very little steppe) and significantly improves for the Syunetsi(higher steppe). You can reliably model an Eastern Armenian as 55% NE Caucasian and 45% North Levantine.
Ajarians, imo, are probably the best proxy for the 'AVERAGE' Georgian given that they aren't as southern as Laz/Kartlians/Meskh but aren't as Northern as Megrels or Khevsurs but somewhere in the middle. Using Western Armenians(Erzurum, Gesaria) as the target, you can model them half Georgian and half Lebanese if we use Ajarians as an 'average' proxy for Georgian. But the Syunetsi is roughly 60% Georgian here and the Hamshentsi is nearly 3/4 Georgian in this model.
That's why I tell you it's important to specify which Georgians you are referring to and which Armenians for that matter. Contrary to popular belief, Armenians, and especially Georgians are NOT 100% identical to their respective countrymen. Like most other groups, there are noticeable genetic disparities among us.
FinalFlash
Active member
You'll have to excuse me for my lack of East Asian and ASI admixtureNot Saudis, but you can see them as the northern shifted Levantines.
first of all meskhetians are not typical georgian
2. i didnt say that armenians are closer to levantines . i said that armenians can be modelled as roughly half georgian half lebanese which is the truth
3. why would you use laz . they are kartvelians / georgians yes but they also are more anatolian shifted and also inhabit northeast turkey . of course it will make armenians closer to georgian if laz is used instead of lets say imeretians . especially using hemshins who are more CHG than other armenians and using laz who are more anatolian than other georgians is you being dishonest here
but even when using kartlians who are more armenia shifted than west georgians ....armenians are still significantly lebanese shifted when they are taken as reference :
| Target: Armenian_Syunik Distance: 1.7344% / 0.01734405 | |
|---|---|
| 63.2 | Georgian_Kart |
| 36.8 | Lebanese_Muslim |
| Target: Armenian_Hemsheni Distance: 2.4839% / 0.02483884 | |
|---|---|
| 79.2 | Georgian_Kart |
| 20.8 | Lebanese_Muslim |
- Country
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@vengeance can you post how kurds get modeled using imeretian and lebanese muslim references? You could also plug in the modelings of syunik armenians using imeretians and lebanese muslims
for kurds the distance would be bad
we can rather be modelled as half palestinian christian half yagnobi with a decent yet not great fit
- Country
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You could post that then. Also can you post how syunik armenian reference gets modelled using imeretian and lebanese muslim references?
FinalFlash
Active member
Dishonest? Have you been hitting the sauce lately? You can't pick and choose whichever Georgian subgroup you'd like to use to model Armenians with and claim your selection to be the objective truth. Whether you like it or not, Georgians are in fact genetically heterogenous whether they are Anatolian-shifted, steppe-shifted, moon-shifted or what have you. My entire point is that you can't claim to model Armenians as 50/50 without specifying which Armenians you are using as a target and which Georgians as a reference.
Your model uses Muslims btw, I used Christians and even then, they clearly aren't 50/50 or in between.
| Target: Armenian_Syunik Distance: 2.3607% / 0.02360675 | |
|---|---|
| 50.6 | Lebanese_Muslim |
| 49.4 | Georgian_Imer |
- Country
-
That was expected